Where does email marketing fit into your overall marketing strategy?

Full transcript:

David Bain
Digital Marketing Radio Episode 265: Where does email marketing fits into your overall marketing strategy?

Digital Marketing Radio with David Bain

Hi, I’m David Bain. And this is Digital Marketing Radio, the show for in-house agency and entrepreneurial marketers who want to stay on top of that it is tools, tactics and trends, as shared right here by today’s modern marketing masters. Is email marketing strategy, a bit of an after afterthought for you. Now perhaps you don’t consider email to be a serious marketing channel and whatever you send is reactive and not planned as part of an inter integrated marketing strategy. In this episode 265 of Digital Marketing Radio, we are looking at how email marketing can be a significant part of the modern marketing mix in 2022. and beyond. Joining me to discuss that is a lady who’s a chartered marketer, and awarded fellow of the IDM with over 10 years marketing experience. She’s author of a new book called marketing strategy, overcome common pitfalls and create effective marketing. And she’s founder and strategy director at let’s talk strategy. Welcome to DMR, Jenna Tiffany.

Jenna Tiffany.
thanks for having me. Brilliant to be here.

David Bain
Yeah, thanks for coming on Jenna. Well, you can find Jen over at let’s talk strategy dot code at UK. So Jenna, I write my thinking that email marketing doesn’t necessarily always seem to be considered as a serious marketing channel by Mary many brands.

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, I think I think that’s a fair observation to make, I think it’s an area that typically has been almost like pushed into the corner, and email just happens, and it just generates results. And it doesn’t necessarily get into those top budget conversations. When it’s competing with the likes of PPC pay per click and SEO, for example, you tend to take a big proportion of the marketing budget. But what is really interesting in the email space, particularly at the moment, but what has been happening over the last couple of years, is that businesses have started to appreciate the channel and the revenue that it drives, because it is the highest, has the highest ROI out of any digital marketing channel goes to email, it is a cheap medium, if you looked at it, and in terms of the cost, and sometimes that’s why it struggles with the budget conversation. But you just have to look at the value being assigned to marketing platforms, like the likes of MailChimp, that have just been acquired for $12 billion. And that is a company that started as an email marketing software that is core to their software. And I think that in itself speaks volumes of where the email industry is going, the value that’s assigned to email and companies that may be looking to sell or get acquired are typically asked what is the engagement rate, what’s the list size that you have, and it’s it started to then really trigger that whole value piece in, in email.

David Bain
And it’s quite incredible MailChimp being acquired for that, because it’s a, it was a relatively late starter to the email marketing, conversation, email marketing brands, because I used email marketing a long time before they seem to exist. And maybe they existed for a long time, and I wasn’t aware of them. But then I use AWeber for quite a while before I was even aware of, of MailChimp, so quite incredible and does show you I guess how serious and significant email marketing is nowadays. The way you described email actually reminded me a bit of SEO because I’ve got a quote unquote, an SEO background and to certain degree SEO is pushed into the corner and not given much budget compared with PPC out there. So what would you say is a good an effective email marketing strategy in general at the moment? Are our newsletters still at the heart of everything? And is it more about email that appears to be personal to individuals and written in a less snazzy way than newsletters?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, great question. The, I suppose the first starting point with email and this is the bit where this doesn’t necessarily happen often enough, would be actually defining what those objectives are. And I think the reason why that doesn’t necessarily start in the conversation of when you’re using email as a channel is because of that budget piece is just not seen initially to be driving that value, although it does it just gets under reported or not reported at all, in quite large organisations. So it would really be starting with those objectives of what are you trying to achieve with your email, you know, it might be that you you You’re looking to grow your list, if you have a smaller list, it might be that actually you want to segment your listing and engage a particular type of audience that you are targeting or for a particular type of product. Then once you’ve defined that, that then goes into, okay, what do we need to be sending that audience to keep them engaged, because that will be different for each company for each audience in terms of what’s going to work in terms of the the actual communication that you send, but also the content that’s included in there as well. So newsletters, yes, are still a very, I would classify them as a core element. They’re quite consistent across businesses, they do need to be tailored to the audience. And there’s an interesting trade off with personalization that you mentioned there about in help, including the person’s name and thinking about those products or items that they might have purchased previously or used if it’s a service. But the switch off there with being too personalised is when the customer feels like you know, a lot more than what they’ve actually told you. So this kind of goes into that question of tracking and cookies and all of that element. And personalization is really effective, it’s been proven time and time again, to drive results to customers, if it doesn’t feel invasive, if it doesn’t feel that someone sat outside your window, watching here, knowing more about you than what you’ve actually told the organisation. So there is that you have to be sensitive with that element. But yes, sending it as personalised and relevant as possible. And really thinking about the customer, the end subscriber, and not just thinking about what you might have to sell or offer that week or day when you’re sending that email campaign.

David Bain
Okay, great thoughts there. But you also mentioned that the conversation actually should start off with the customer and the objectives and obviously, with strategy as well. So maybe going back to marketing strategy in general, how often should marketing strategy be set? And how should an email marketing manager campaign internally within an organisation to have more email involved in the conversation?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yes, so the danger here is that you set and forget. And that happens quite often in email, particularly where automation comes to play where there might be a welcome journey, for example, which I do say to be one of the most important journeys to be thinking about, that could be set up as an automation. And that’s just forgotten about, and it’s been running for years and years and years, and it has out of date information in and that needs a review period. And the same, as you’ve mentioned there to be said, for the strategy piece, how often you need to review that is quite a difficult element because really needs to be tailored to the organisation. But I would say as a minimum every six months, when we’re looking at times of COVID. And coming out of COVID, there’s been lots of consumer behaviour changes, that could impact your tone of voice that could impact the communications that you send. So during those times really thinking about reviewing at least three every three months, it doesn’t have to be a really odious process where it takes weeks and months to review. But really just a quick check in, does this still resonate with the audience? Is it still relevant? Does it actually represent the context that the audience are going to be experiencing the email in and that that’s the key piece. You mentioned at the beginning that I have just published a book I published in May. And in that book, I have a new method of creating objectives called scale. And really their thinking about them being strategic, really considering your audience, considering it for your business. Having your audience as part of your objectives, I think that’s the piece that we typically forget about was rivairy honed in to the organisation that we’re working for. And then thinking about the left, what that needs to look like to be valuable to the business to drive that value piece and help that conversation. And then what does the end goal you know, when does that timeframe need to be set by and that could be in a few weeks, it could be months, it could be for the first quarter? It could be in a year’s time, but making sure you have some target end date, so you can then refer back to that when you’re measuring success.

David Bain
Superb, absolutely superb and just taking notes myself there as well. So email doesn’t obviously sit silo it Part of the communications mix and people I guess get exposed to email as a result of interacting in some way with another piece of content. So what are your broad thoughts on how email sits with other marketing channels? What should it be used to do? For instance, should you try and really mix retargeting with with email to actually generate more subscribers or open rates? What are your general general thoughts on that?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, so email, emails, quite an interesting channel, because it typically will feature throughout the customer journeys touchpoints all the way through. And it doesn’t necessarily just start with email or just end with email. And it comes in and out, when customers are looking for information when they’re deciding whether or not your solution is going to fit their need. And they want but also comes in at once they’ve made that purchase as well to keep your company front of mind to keep that engagement to keep the conversation going. So it does typically come all the way through. Email has, for a number of organisation, particularly those that we’ve worked with, in, in my agency has actually driven the most amount of quality visitors. And what I mean by that is, when subscribers have selected a piece of content in the email, and they’ve clicked through to the website, they have them been those that have spent the most amount of time on the website, they’ve visited the most amount of pages on the website. So thinking about how you could relate, maybe there’s some some keyword research that you have from your paid advertising, maybe there’s some elements from your SEO that you’re focusing on, and feeding that into your email content plan, and your email campaign plan will really start to elevate that and tie things together. And, and vice versa. as well. There’ll be elements that in email work really well like in the subject line, for example, there’ll be particular content that worked really well. Something to test on social media and and vice versa, and share those learnings across the different channels. And I think then you get a much better picture of who your audiences, what do they like and not maybe not engaged with? What should we be doing more of what should we do less of? And we actually haven’t we tried across all of those channels. For me, I see a, you know, it should be a full marketing mix, we should never just be putting all our eggs into one basket and one channel. That going back to what you mentioned there, there is still unfortunately, a lot of silos in place. So just being able to have that conversation of Okay, what did you learn from our audience on social media last month, for example, and there’ll be some nuggets from now that you can use across other channels, and that starts that starts breaking down those barriers of silos.

David Bain
Okay? So email key, I love what you say about the quality of visits from email emphasising the, when people know you, when people recognise your brand, then they’re much more likely to engage with what you do, and I guess more willing to potentially buy as a result of doing that. So building an email list is absolutely key. How do you build an email list in 2021?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, so big, it is a big challenge. And I know the quick win approach that sometimes is taken is to buy a list, please don’t do that. It’s, it will not bring the value that you hope it will, it’s an expensive, it’s an expensive place to start. And I know that that then means that it takes longer for you to grow that list. And I think that is the biggest challenge is growing or less, particularly if you’re a new organisation might be a startup and you see that you can buy a list or give you a good head start. But not having that those subscribers not necessarily consenting directly to your organisation means that you’re going to start creating a bad representation of your organisation. If you start sending these emails to potentially a very cold list. We actually had an organisation contact us a month ago to help them warm up a cold list. And that is danger. Robert, that is that brand piece that you’ve just mentioned there in the inbox of being recognised. And if you continuously send to a list that you’ve purchased, that they don’t necessarily know who you are, that starts a bad as a bad fitting. really thinking about where you can tie those other channels in is important here. For B2B organisations events is a good way to start growing your list. Having a unique piece of content or a unique offering that only you can get as a subscriber. So for an example, it might be that you have a really good lace piece of research. It’s going to be of interest to you Audience where you might have VIP events or products that you can promote to your customer base. Starting that area then starts to also develop of what they’re interested in, they start to find out more about what you can offer, it starts that more human connection than just buying a cold list of data, because you then have 100 email addresses, for example, to start with,

David Bain
when you’re offering something like a white paper or more content, or perhaps some offering opportunity for someone to sign up to watch a virtual summit. Is it better just to ask for name and email address? Or is it’s better information for the business, lower conversion rates, but better information to actually ask for more data from people?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, the key, the key question here to ask is what what do you want to do with that data, once you’ve captured it, and that has to be really clear at the point of sign up as well to the person given that data. But if it is just to download your research, and to read that research, and that’s what they’re interested in, and email address, and potentially a name would be enough there. This is where you can then start to go through gradual profiling, where the next interaction with your organisation, you might then ask something else, to get some more information about that particular person, if you have the software that’s capable of doing that. Otherwise, I’d really strongly recommend, you know, recommend avoiding asking lots and lots of questions for lots of lots of data at the start, because it’s, it’s really off putting, and then you’re setting up a premises that you’re going to use all of that data the next time you communicate with that person. And if you don’t use all of that data, that person then is going to be like, okay, so why did you capture that? If you’re now asking me that question where I already gave you the answer. So you have to be really careful with that trade off. It’s almost like catching up with a friend who you’ve known for a really long time. They tell you lots of different stories, lots different things, you get to know them really, really well. And then you meet me up with them again, and you forgotten everything that they told you. And they’re like, okay, I told you all this, I thought we were friends. And that’s, that’s the human element of of data capture that we really need to be thinking about,

David Bain
or like interviewing people twice for your podcast answering asking the same questions all over again.

Jenna Tiffany.
Exactly.

David Bain
So you talks about gradual profiling, and that’s something that is appealing for both users and marketers alike. What’s some software that you can perhaps recommend that does a good job of that?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, I think for B2B, mainly for B2B organisations, HubSpot does do a good job of gradual profiling. It will recognise, sign a visitor coming back, it will then update those forms. If you’re going to capture data again, or you have some form of or you have something where it’s gated content. Or if they’re going through a demo, for example, a demo request or anything like that. It will then not ask the same question twice, it will then ask another question that you’ve put into the system, you then get to help the sales team then, you know, they’re really like that, because then they feel like they’re not starting off on just an email address and first name, and that, you know, they have a little bit more information that also doesn’t feel so invasive in a B2B environment. B2C, I haven’t seen one that I would say, right, yes, I recommend that. I think you’ve just got to be really careful in a B2C environment, that it’s not that the data that you’re capturing really is necessary. So if you’re a clothing brand, for example, yes, you might need to understand the size. But how, how, how are you then going to use that information other than just filtering the search results on the website itself? Can you then use that to segment your audience and only set show them the products that you have available in that size? You know, that’s something that’s been really useful? The more that organisations do that the more that consumers are willing to give that information. Because time and time again, research has shown that consumers are willing to give this data if they get something in return that’s valuable to them. So if if that means that then they get relevant content, they get relevant offers, they get relevant discounts based on what they’ve purchased before, then, of course, I’m happy to give that information because there’s a trade off there. But if organisations just take that information and use it for their own internal benefit, but don’t actually present that back to the customer, that’s where the customer is then. Not as open to providing that detail.

David Bain
Yeah, I’ve seen software like Aweber like ConvertKit be able to do things like incorporate links within initial signups to ask people further questions and then maybe tag people as a result of doing that. But it doesn’t seem to be the most intuitive and all encompassing way to deliver that gradual profiling. And that’s why I was just wondering if there’s anything better out there. But I guess there’s an opportunity for a software developer in the B2C space or the small company space to actually offer something a little bit different. The other thing that I think could be a little bit better is preference centres, for consumers to say things like I would prefer to be communicated with using email using chat, using SMS, other forms of marketing, and to automatically be able to opt in or out to multiple different forms of content and one preference centre. And that’s what I’d like to see. But I don’t think I’ve seen something like that. Are you aware of something like that

Jenna Tiffany.
the most creative way of capturing that information that I’ve seen and it isn’t, wasn’t classed as a preference centre, but it was a preference sensor in the back end of the system, but the consumer didn’t see that was using imagery and having an interactive email. So anything that was selected, or having, or even an interactive landing page where it could be swiped or clicked. You know, for a holiday company, for example, they had two different types of, of holiday staycation or a beach resort. And there’s just two images, you select one that then dictates what the next option will be. And then behind all of that, that the consumer doesn’t see is that that’s capturing the preference centre information. And the way forward. Yeah, and I think that’s intuitive to the customer, they can swipe, they can click, they know what to do, it’s not, it’s not a case of going to this really boring grey page where you then click these different radio buttons, you click a tick box, and you select your option. It’s much more interactive and fun.

David Bain
It’s like next generation surveys. I’m an I’m a fan of the way that naked wines go about acquiring customers using paid promotion on Twitter and driving people towards a survey. And your survey is how much do you think a bottle of wine should cost? And it doesn’t feel who is if actually you’re being opt in to an email list, which you obviously are.

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, see that? That’s just Yeah, it’s a different way of framing isn’t it is it’s more it says about tell us what you think about this and actually making it a little bit more of a conversation. And on social that definitely is something that will work very well. But it’s the same for email as well, that is that conversation piece I think sometimes we just miss because we as marketers, right? Right? We need to capture this information, we need to understand this. And sometimes you can’t just go out and just ask that question. You’re not necessarily going to get the answer, you know, get any answers back.

David Bain
And as I mentioned to you, people do use WhatsApp, they use Facebook Messenger, other platforms out there other that aren’t email, is email not going to be replaced by one of these different types of communication at some point in the future.

Jenna Tiffany.
Oh, if I had, you know, pound for every time I’ve been asked that.

I would be very rich right now. No, I think it’s, I will put my hat on that. The reason why I say that, and there’s a couple of reasons, but predominantly, if you think about when you log in, and I know that you can now use your your phone number as well. But when you can log into the likes of social media, they’re asking for an email address. I think if you look at the likes of acquisitions that are taking place that we mentioned at the beginning about MailChimp, acquisition, but also looking at the likes of Twitter, where you can now actually email you can you can create email campaigns within Twitter itself, they’ve recently just bought another software to do that. I think there’s a lot of movement going on within the email space where it will stay core, I think the biggest challenge to email is the quality is the quality of the engagement in terms of actually getting the engagement from subscribers, if they get constantly bombarded, it could be a switch off element, then it could be difficult to get that attention. I think we’re starting to see a little bit of that. But I think that is the key piece of really focusing on what we were saying at the beginning about the relevancy element, but I don’t see it being replaced. I see it being complimentary to other communication channels are still being one of the core ones.

David Bain
Great. I knew what you were going to say as an answer there. But I just thought I’d ask just in case I could persuade you to to move on to another ship at some point in the future. Let’s Let’s segue to part two of our discussion. So it’s time for Jenna’s thoughts on the state of digital marketing today. So starting off with SECRET SOFTWARE. So Jenna share a lesser-known martech tool that’s bringing you a lot of value at the moment and why that tools important for you.

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, so I’m not sure if it’s less than known. But when I was writing my book, and actually when, when the team and I are writing any copy lengthy copy, we use a tool called Scrivener. I think that’s how you pronounce it. And it’s really, I really liked it for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it doesn’t crash like word does every two minutes when you have a really big document, which tends to freeze and just give up. But also you can set your limits within there in terms of what word count you’re aiming for, it gives you a countdown, it’s, it can be basic in its format. So I find it’s less distracting because of that and, and much easier to use. And it’s purely built, that tool has been built for writing. So for me it was, it was really good to be able to just create those sub folders create their sub elements, when I was writing my book have an area for research narrative where I was working on chapters, where I might have had some feedback from the publishers. And I could just have that all in one place all in one screen and not have to go to multiple different documents. And for me, it was it really took away that headache. And I really, really enjoyed using that tool. So myself and the team and the copywriters use that on a regular basis.

David Bain
Wow, super well, that tool was recommended one time before and Digital Marketing Radio A long time ago by 2014 2015. And I was trying to find out which episode it was, but I can quickly find out just know what it was. But I remember the gentlemen pronouncing it Scrivener. But he was based in the States. So I’m not sure if that was the US pronunciation versus British English version. But it’s great to hear that it all still exists and continues to get better. But let’s move on from something that you currently use to something that you’re going to use. So that is NEXT ON THE LIST. So what’s one marketing activity or tool that you haven’t tried yet, but you want to test soon?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, this was an interesting question. So it’s not really, I suppose you could see it as a marketing activity. It’s not a tool. For me, that area that I’m really I’m keeping my eye on and I’m trying to get my head round is NF T’s. And that whole space of NF T’s I saw that Gary Vee who, you know, I’m not his number one fan, but I saw that he was being being interviewed in the States. And he was talking about NF T’s. And he’s he’s drawn, he’s created these drawings that are going to auction and then he’s digitalize them and always made a marketing activity out of it. And I am just keeping my finger on the pulse with that I struggle with getting my head around NF Ts. But it’s definitely very hot space right now. So I’m, I’m just kind of keeping my ear to the ground on that and just watching that space.

David Bain
That’s a great thought. I like you, I think I’m aware of them. And I know it’s some form of digital token related to blockchain and a way of eating transactions on the blockchain. But it’s difficult to really imagine many real life business scenarios. So it feels like people taking maybe a little bit of a punt, but it’s probably me not completely understanding what it’s likely to be used for in the future. But it’s um, it’s intriguing. And yeah, thanks for bringing that one up.

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, so I was gonna say, I think in a business transaction, the one area where might come up, which is an area that I was thinking about a few weeks ago was with logos, branded brand logos. And maybe there’s a transaction element there on the blockchain, when you buy a company, you also buy their logos, and then f t is a very interesting space there. I think there’s, there may be some potential I’m not sure I’m like you. I’m kind of just watching the space. But I’m very intrigued intrigued by that. Okay, so

David Bain
it’s potentially a way of protecting trademark as well.

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, potentially. I think there’s quite a lot of discussion about that on the blockchain, which for companies that start now, great, you could have that on there. But for legacy companies, is that transition time isn’t it between a company that’s existed for 30 years to get up to speed, and be and have all of that Trademark Information also on the blockchain, and they potentially have their logos and NF T is going to take some time. But for any new organisation starting now, they could start that process and be really quite ahead of a lot of competitors. If that is the way that things move forward.

David Bain
Possibly, it sounds like a conversation that we could be having in the mid 90s. About the internet.

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah. And I feel like if I’m watching it from afar, say the.com boom. You hear a lot of people talk about and I almost I look at it through that lens. It’s funny that you say that that’s how I look at that as well.

David Bain
Yeah. Oh, yeah, a lot of people have described the blockchain as the next generation of the internet. So, yeah, I

Jenna Tiffany.
think, you know, it solves it solves a lot of it solves a lot of problems. But I don’t think it’s salts enough yet. So I think it could solve some of the privacy concerns that people currently have. But then there’s some elements of NF T’s where I don’t even know how that is GDPR compliant, so that there’s some it’s a good starting place. And I think it has got a lot of potential. I think there is an element where we were probably will need something like the blockchain, but I think it still got a lot of maturity.

David Bain
This sounds like a conversation that needs to be continued and explored in further depth. But yeah, thanks so much for bringing it up. Should we move on to this or that route? So this is a quick response range. 10 quick questions, Just 2 rules here. Try not to think about the answer too much. And you’re only allowed to say the word both on one occasion, so use it wisely. Are you ready?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, I’m ready, I think.

David Bain
Tick Tock or Twitter, Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn, LinkedIn, YouTube or podcast, YouTube, traffic or leads. leads, paid search or SEO, SEO, ads or influencers. ads, Google ads, or Facebook ads.

Jenna Tiffany.
Google ads,

David Bain
email marketing or chat marketing, email, Mar tech stack, or all in one platform. Mar tech stack, one to one or scale? One to one. And the only one that I heard and I’m in front of was Google ads or Facebook ads. Why is that? Yeah, that’s quite

Jenna Tiffany.
a tricky one. Some companies, some companies, maybe that should have been a both Actually, I probably should have been in hindsight, I wasn’t allowed to think about it. Oh, put it back to that. But

some organisations You know, they’re they’re really successful with Facebook ads, and wouldn’t work so well in in the Google space, which is why I was I should have probably gone both.

David Bain
Can any business be successful using Facebook ads?

Jenna Tiffany.
I’ve seen some success. Surprisingly, I know. I also do get very surprised with that element. But yeah, we’ve worked with a few brands particularly in the e commerce DTC space, where they’ve done incredibly well on Facebook advertising. But I wouldn’t say that it’s necessarily something that will continue for years and years and years, whereas I think Google has a more consistent over timeframe.

David Bain
Let’s move on to the $10,000 question. If I were to give you $10,000 and you had to spend over the next few days in a single thing to grow your business, what would you spend it on? And how would you measure success?

Jenna Tiffany.
This is really tough this question. So I hope everyone struggles with this one.

I think for me, I mean it seems seems a lot of money for what I’m about to say I guess but it would be like an intensive language training course. So I’m currently learning Portuguese part of my business is based in Lisbon and then I have my other part of the business and team is based in London and whilst I can speak a little bit of Portuguese it’s very little and I feel that there would be a lot more business opportunity if I could speak much more Portuguese so I guess I would want to do this intensive never leave the room for three days course on Portuguese come out completely fluent. And I would measure that then in terms of business over the next 12 months, but then with Portuguese speaking nationals in organisations,

David Bain
but as a an unusual answer, but a great an interesting answer. I used to work for a big ecommerce business that had a big office in portal and I’m aware that there are many highly technical well educated people in Portugal and it’s a good it’s a good place it obviously costs less to live than it doesn’t summer like London. Why did you actually end up selecting Portugal?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, I really wanted to get you know, the goal was let’s strategies to grow your organisation we had a lot of European based clients. And this was pre Brexit timing, but Brexit was kicking around in conversation. And I thought, well, maybe Actually, we would do better as a business to have that base in the UK but then have a base in Europe that I could then I was travelling a lot at the time, I could then use as a base and travel between what I’m speaking in the likes of Germany and, and go from there to the states and so on. So when I was looking at this, I was looking at France, I looked at Germany that as they speak a lot of English in Germany as well, very, very good English, looked at Spain, and they looked at Porto, Portugal, and they had brilliant connections to two airports. Really like the lifestyle really like the people, the culture, the weather is a female thing. And for me, it was just, I knew a few people in Portugal. And it was just fairly, relatively easy and straightforward to set up my company there as well and have that base. And so I took it from there. But one element I completely underestimated was the language. And it is very, very difficult language to learn this six ways of saying the same word. And it’s, it’s just very, very complicated for for English speaking people to be able to learn because it’s very, they don’t frame the sentence in the same way as English in the same order. So you can’t do a direct translation, which makes it really difficult to remember and about a piece of sentence together.

David Bain
Did you ever motor as well?

Jenna Tiffany.
Um, no, I didn’t, I didn’t consider motor. I really wanted to have recommend a wanted to be in a main city in that was still really connected to Europe. I know more motorist, but for me that I could then just drive across to Spain, if I needed to, for example, or I could get a ferry or I could do X, Y, and Zed. And so I really wanted to be very well connected. If I ever needed to take a trip anywhere. So for me, I really love I love the love the country. I think it’s very, it’s very, very beautiful. It’s very unbecoming Lisbon’s, an amazing city. So it’s Porto. And it’s very up and coming. So there’s lots of opportunity here, especially in in the email world to develop that further.

David Bain
Interesting, I’m sure you’ll get some people booking weekend trips, just by your description of the country there. To finish off, let’s shift the focus to someone else who deserves it. So that is a MAGICAL MARKETER who’s an up and coming marketer that you’d like to give a shout out to what can we learn from them? And where can we find them?

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, so so I have been interviewing lots of different business owners, marketers, entrepreneurs, for the marketing strategy series, which has been part of the launch for my book and different case studies and quotes and reviews that have been included in there. But really, too, I created that series. It’s just a 13 episode series, just to dig deep into what drives marketers both established and up and coming new. And what would they what would they tell their younger, younger selves, to help those up and coming marketers. And one of the people that I interviewed is called Sarah Merkel. And she was previously the senior loyalty officer for action for children, which is a charity in the UK, and is now a CRM lead for third space learning. So an educational company. But she had such a, she has such a great grounding of marketing, she has a real focus on the end recipient. So in the book, and what she was talking about in their marketing strategy series is that for action for children was how they connected with their donators at a time that was really difficult during COVID to, you know, drive those donations, so a lot of focus elsewhere. And how they got creative with that, how she was able to tailor the communication, to the donators to increase the actual amount of money that they raised. And she’s she’s very, very inquisitive in her process, but also very practical. So she appreciated that there would be a sign off process is going to take some time. And she really took it upon herself to break down those barriers and really try to push home the benefit of doing the campaign. It’s actually called boycott my bed. To do that campaign, it’s been one of the most successful campaigns they’ve ever done. They’re looking at running it every year. And for me, I just really liked her enthusiasm and drive to really think about that end person and what’s gonna be valuable to them and how can we drive that for To increase that donation and to connect them to the charity, and I really really liked her approach,

David Bain
a great recommendation and a great episode. This was Episode 265 of Digital Marketing Radio word Jenna Tiffany, from let’s talk strategy shared some great specific tips on email marketing, including thinking about your audience when considering objectives, thinking about your strategy, the fact that email was multiple touchpoints. Email also drives quality visitors as well. So don’t just look at the quantity of your visitors to your website, look at what they’re doing. And you’ll probably find the people who have heard up before and are visiting as a result of an email are probably more likely to spend longer on your website and more likely to potentially buy as well. You also shared the email isn’t going away at all anytime soon. Your SECRET SOFTWARE was in Scrivener, and your MAGICAL MARKETER marketer was Sarah Merkel. Jenna, what’s the best social platform for someone to follow you and to say Hi.

Jenna Tiffany.
Yeah, either Twitter or LinkedIn. I’m just there at genitive knee and feel free to reach out as well for our website. Let’s talk strategy.co UK.

David Bain
super soft. Well, I’ll make sure there’s links to that to all the resources that you mentioned including Scrivener and Sierra Miracle on the show notes at Digital Marketing radio.com. I’ve been your host David Bain. You can also find me producing podcasts and YouTube shows for B2B brands over at Casting cred.com until we meet again, stay hungry, stay foolish and stay subscribed. Aloha

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