How do SEO and PR work together? With Dayana Mayfield | DMR #270

Full transcript:

David Bain
Digital Marketing Radio episode 270: How do SEO and PR work together?

Bot
Digital Marketing Radio with David Bain.

David Bain
I’m David Bain in this is Digital Marketing Radio, the place where today’s modern marketing masters keep you up to date with all the races, tools, tactics and trends, all the essential matters in digital marketing today. The chances are that you’re either great at SEO or PR. They seem like very different modern marketing disciplines one technical one creative, however, to be as effective as possible they need to work together. digital PR can be a wonderful way of driving authority, aka links to your site. And that’s what I’m going to be discussing on episode 270 of Digital Marketing Radio with a specialist copywriter and digital PR strategist who helps SAS companies rank in Google search and convert that traffic into free trial signups and demo requests. Our clients include drift, travel perk, and storychief. Added work has been featured in Forbes, entrepreneur and Business Insider. welcome to DMR. Dayana Mayfield.

Dayana Mayfield
Hey, thanks so much for having me.

David Bain
thank you so much for being part of this. Well, you can find Diane over Diana Mayfield to.com. So, Diana, how should SEO and digital PR be working more closely together?

Dayana Mayfield
Yeah. So there are several key ways but just start off the simplest way that I like to describe why these two strategies need to work together. And why that’s important is that when you’re using SEO, it’s like you’re telling Google who you are, who your business is, what you want to rank for. And PR is other companies telling Google who you are. So Google’s not just going to listen to you. They’re not just going to listen to you to your own horn. They’re also going to listen to what other websites are saying about you to determine if you are truly in authority in that subject matter. So if you want free traffic from Google, but you’re just doing SEO, and you’re not focused on PR and backlinks at all, then you’re missing a big part of the puzzle of what Google cares about. And you know, you’re basically just tooting your own horn, but you’re not really leaning on the opportunity to have other websites backup, what you’re saying and back you up as an authority. And a lot of people in SEO understand the importance of backlinks. And they use backlink outreach and to get backlinks. But the problem with that is that you are just getting a backlink. When you do backlink outreach, you just get a backlink. If you’re lucky, you write an email, you say, Hey, I noticed you have this resource, I have a relevant resource that should you know be included in your blog posts, please link to it. That’s like a really basic email that anybody that’s writing content has received a million times. If you’re lucky, it works most of the time, it doesn’t. And if it does work, all you get is a backlink. But if you’re doing digital PR to get backlinks, you get the backlink you get a relationship with that journalist or that blogger or that you know, relative, you know, company that’s not a competitor. And then you also get a hit of traffic to your website. When you know whatever that piece is goes live, whether it’s a feature in Forbes, or it’s a guest blog, on a, you know, a big website with a, you know, good readership, or it’s a podcast, you’re also going to get a hit of traffic to your website, which you could potentially convert into email subscribers, if you have like a well optimised lead magnet on your homepage. So when you’re doing digital PR, you get you know, multiple benefits. And your win rates can also be higher, because you know, podcast hosts need interviewees. And journalists need people to, you know, interview and feature. So your win rate can be you know, higher depending on like the competitiveness of the publications that you’re going after compared to backlink outreach, which is essentially, you know, essentially cold outreach that people don’t really want to receive. And it’s like they don’t have a need to backlink to you. I’m not incentivized to like sure I’m going to give you a backlink like why would I do that? I have no reason to spend five or 10 minutes editing my posts to give you a backlink.

David Bain
I love that perspective. Stop tooting your own horn and try to get other people to toot your horn on your behalf and I guess it’s easier said than done as well, because there are many people that receive emails or requests to be featured or certainly to receive links. One thing that you mentioned, towards the end of what you said there is, people are looking for people to interview, either on podcasts or perhaps on other publications is that one of the more effective ways now to to get other people to talk to you. And to to receive a backlink and to actually publish content on your behalf to be interviewed by these publications.

Dayana Mayfield
Yeah, so that’s kind of an effective, you know, strategy is to create relationships with journalists, you can do that by pitching them a story, or, you know, you can follow them on Twitter and LinkedIn and comment on their content. So they kind of know who you are. And if you have kind of, you know, an optimised profile, you have a very clear LinkedIn profile, and you find a journalist to, you know, interviews, business owners just like you, then there’s a chance that they will reach out to you without you even having to reach out to them because they’ll have seen you kind of popping up in their feed commenting on their stuff. They know what you do. So that kind of organic, inbound PR is one opportunity. And then of course, there’s, you know, more traditional media pitches where you are pitching journalists via email, if you’re going for competitive, you know, large household name brand publications, your win rate, there will be a lot, you know, lower, but it’s a great strategy, because that’s how you can get those really high. Dr. backlinks from websites that are you know, they have a der of like 75 to like 93. So that not only gives you a kind of more traffic in that moment, because they have a bigger audience, but then you’re also getting a backlink from like a higher DR site. And then if you’re kind of looking for, you care more about the backlinks than you do the digital PR, like, you’re not so worried about accessing new audiences and looking like an authority and collecting these fancy logos. That’s not you, then you know, guest posting can be the easiest strategy. And you can just find non competing websites in your industry within your, you know, target market that have a DR of like, at least 40. And one of my top secrets with guest posting is to actually templatized your guest post. So think of like a top 10 tips for, you know, your target customer. And then now the next guest post you write might be seven of those and you’re not copying, you’re not ever going to give somebody a copy of the same guest post, you’re going to reword it, but you might do like five, or you might do seven, or you might switch it into a how to, but you’re kind of templatized the content in some way so that every time you write a guest post, it’s a lot faster, and you can look at your previous one. And you know, rewrite it but rewrite the same content, just like if somebody goes on a podcasting tour. And they give you know, 50 podcasts interviews in a month, they’re going to be talking about the same sorts of things if they’re trying to establish their expertise. So you can do the same thing with guest blogging. And it’ll take away some of the effort when it comes to producing the blog because it could take you an hour or even 45 minutes to rewrite a blog versus like three to four hours to come up with something new every time. Yeah,

David Bain
podcast tours are something that I have a bit of a I guess a love hate relationship with. Because obviously, as a host of a podcast, I get quite a bit of outreach I get I get at least one person a day or so reaching out to me asking to be on a podcast normally through a podcast booking agency, which is less personal, we’re not particularly appealing. You’re actually one thing I love about doing this show is the last question that I have as MAGICAL MARKETER. And I get the host the the interviewee sorry to recommend a MAGICAL MARKETER who else do you love do you recommend as no MAGICAL MARKETER and Andy kabasele Episode 249 recommend to do so that was one of the reasons that we got in touch. And if people reached out to me and I don’t really know them, then most of the time i i don’t have them on the show, either because maybe they haven’t demonstrated that they’ve listened to an episode. They haven’t given me a fairly personalised pitch and I just feel that they’re trying to sell something as opposed to provide value to the audience. Now, at the beginning of the point there, you were talking about how you should actually make it appealing for interviewers, journalists, to reach out to you to think that you’re an obvious subject matter experts and whatever topic you’re, you’re, you’re you want to share about it. So what is it about a profile that makes it appealing for a journalist or an interviewer to to reach out and think that person is ideal? And so what does a, a marketer or a thought leader has to do have to do to maybe their website or their LinkedIn profile or, or social media handles in order to make them appealing to journalists?

Dayana Mayfield
Yeah, so that’s a really great question. Because the answer to this question solves a lot of problems for a lot of people like you that are getting these, you know, continuous, like, irrelevant pitches, right, from these podcasts or things. I don’t advocate for podcasts tours, because, yeah, people do tend to do that spray and pray kind of method. And then it also helps, you know, people like me, that are that are looking to give interviews, you know, not have to send as many pitches to get as much publicity. So it’s like, yeah, if you’re getting some from inbound PR, like, that’s great. Who wouldn’t want that? Right? So to answer that question, it has to be really, you know, clear, clear, and then have some authority behind it. So sometimes, like in LinkedIn, people will get these, like, fancy kind of, I help XYZ do blah, blah, and x like, it’s like that kind of coaching consulting realm. Where they’re like writing these long, like headlines, if like, that was kind of like the cool thing in like, 2017 2018, to kind of have these like, long like, sentence type headlines, I found that I get so many more like, not only inbound PR sort of leads, but like client leads by having a super, super clear.

LinkedIn headline, and mine just says, SAS copywriter. And, right and so like, you can figure out some way maybe you might have if you really want to have your I help x do XYZ, you know, have like a clear title before that. So, you know, Google Ads expert, and then I help local businesses, blah, blah, blah, right. So that way, like people can see, okay, hey, um, I need like a Google Ads expert for this article, or whatever. And they could even search because you have to think LinkedIn is also a search engine. So like, journalists will absolutely, if they’re looking for somebody for a story, they will absolutely use LinkedIn search, you know, and so you can like pop up. But if you have these kind of confusing headlines, you’re not gonna pop up. And then they’re not going to be able to instantly see what you do if they see your posts, or they see your comment, right, because your headline follows you around everywhere in LinkedIn. And then, you know, inside of your profile, I always recommend that a profile should read like a sales letter to talk about, like pain points. But you might also want to put like a testimonial in there, you could also put some of your other like features, like if you were featured in, you know, some big name publications, you could mention that like towards the bottom if you have a little bio section. But I would definitely say the headline is the most important part. And then the other most important part, especially when we’re talking about LinkedIn, is to connect with those journalists. So like, if you use LinkedIn Sales Navigator, you could make a separate group of people and call it like PR. And you could put, you know, podcast hosts and you know, content managers of big blogs, journalists, and then inside of Sales Navigator, you can click on that group, and you can see all of their posts and then comment on some of their things. So obviously, Sales Navigator costs like 1000 bucks a year. So if you’re not using it, you know, you can still do that just have like a spreadsheet of these people’s profiles, as you’re kind of making your hit list of like, maybe you’re also emailing them, but then you’re also commenting on their content could just be like once a month. If you don’t have a lot of time. You know, once a month you spend an hour engaging with you know, these relationships. And then if you do pitch them later, then it’s like they’ve seen your name and And they know who you are. And hopefully they reach out to you too. And another thing to keep in mind is that, you know, we’re not restricted to only going after these big household name publications, like PR is very different than it used to be right we have digital PR, which, like, it’s just so amazing how many different you know, things that could that could represent that could be somebodies igtv, like their Instagram Live video series, that could be a like a virtual summit or, you know, a virtual conference. And so you’re going to be more likely to get a kind of inbound PR from from people like that, as opposed to like these big brands that are like, you know, they’re constantly like getting pummelling with tonnes of, you know, pitches and stuff like that. It’s like, you know, figuring out within your niche, which are the companies that are running these annual conferences, or that are running these, these kind of series, whether it’s like a blog interview series, or, or, you know, alive and find the content managers like because it could be like a big SAS brand, right, you could, oh, let me find some of the content managers and drift to get in touch with because they do so many, like interview type content, cross written video, audio. So think content managers, not just journalists, when you are making those connections,

David Bain
you definitely give wonderful, valuable answers, because I’m always picking up about three different points from them and wondering which thread to take for the follow up conversation. And, you know, I like your point about so for instance, following up and commenting on your targets, not your target audience, but I guess your target, who you want to actually reach out to list and actually interacting with them and, and demonstrating that you’re interacting with their content. And just making them aware that you exist prior to, I guess, some kind of outreach campaign that you do at some point in the future. I think too many people outreach cold and is everyone receives a lot of outreach nowadays. So if you receive messages from people that you actually recognise, you’re you’re much more likely to turn around and at least read the email and consider the request. I loved your point as well about making sure that your headline was hyper, targeted, hyper personalised as well. Again, taking back to the show, when I am looking for people to discuss certain topics with you know, I’m looking for experts on maybe LinkedIn advertising or email marketing, or very, very specific subjects. If someone’s headline is that there are general marketer, it’s very difficult to keep on going and read through their profile and and see, well, are they an expert at any particular thing? Or are they just a generalist? It doesn’t make them quite so, so appealing to me. So what about measuring success of this? So if you’ve had, if you’ve managed to appear on quite a few different podcasts are being interviewed by quite a few different journalists and had content published in other places and hopefully links back to your site as a relation to that? How are you looking to measure the success of from that? Is it is it traffic from those sites? Is it ranking on your site? Or some other metric? Yeah,

Dayana Mayfield
that’s a great question. So that brings me to my niche, which is working with SAS companies. And most of my, you know, SAS CEO, and SAS. Cmo clients are a little like disillusioned when it comes to publicity. They’re not expecting publicity to get them very much results, especially when you compare it to what you know, SEO can do. They tend to see publicity as like, you know, if it’s a VC backed company, and they have a massive potential market, then they might be more like, invested in it. But even still, they might see it as like somewhat of a necessary evil and in kind of collecting that authority, but not really like a It’s not really like a lead generation strategy for most SaaS companies like they’re going to see PR is like, either something that you kind of have to do to play the game, or, or they actually want to build up that authority and they want to build up a brand that is kind of being seen in you know, even B2C places and, you know, just more well known kind of outlets because they want to build like this big brand, but that’s kind of rare in the SAS world, most SaaS companies You know, they just want steady, free trial signups steady demo requests, and they’re not really going to get that from PR. So I’ll get to that answer in a second. But before I do for, I’ll get to the SAS people in a second. But before I do for coaches and consultants, and that world, they love collecting those logos, I mean, how many coaches and consultants, Facebook headers have you seen, where it’s like, featured in all this and every single landing page where they sell their programmes and have a lead magnet, they have all the places where they’ve been featured. And when they do get featured, they like celebrate it, like it’s this huge thing, right? Because a lot of them are like small business owners, they never imagined they would get featured in Forbes. And it’s like, super, super amazing for them, right. So they might measure success, just on collecting a logo, and having something to post in Facebook that gets, you know, 200 likes when they post the picture of them with like, the Forbes logo and, or a screenshot of their article or something, right like that, right? Because when they post that on social media, they might get a bunch of leads for their coaching services. Not even because somebody found it on Forbes, and then reached out to them, but because they’re establishing authority with their audience on Facebook, and Instagram, or whatever other sites they might be using. So collecting the logo for for further use, and having something really exciting to announce and kind of show off. Could be enough for a lot of coaches and consultants. When we’re talking about, you know, more like scalable SaaS companies that I work with. We’re measuring SEO results. So yes, there are some SAS companies, the bigger ones that care about PR and, and in that terms, you still wouldn’t measure that as a lead generator, you would measure it in terms of like, brand awareness, which is very hard to measure. But for the most part, it’s the SEO results. So we’re looking at like, you know, how much have we increased the domain rank? And how has that affected, you know, potential rankings when we compare to like, what it was before? And you know, what, how many like, backlinks have we’ve driven to maybe a 5000 word mega post, that’s targeting a very valuable key phrase, and did it rank. So it could be looking at like just overall increasing the Dr. Because that does have an impact across the board on your potential rankings, especially like with future content that you might publish.

If you have a high dr. And also good topical authority, where it’s like, you’re you’re kind of establishing topical authority within just like one to five key topics. If you have that, then when you launch a new post, you know, it could shoot to the top a lot quicker than if you don’t have a high dr. And you don’t have topical authority established. And then we might also be looking at like specific pieces of content that we have prioritised in terms of getting backlinks to, and that might be through guest blogging, where we’re linking to that specific article or page, or through podcast interviews, where I’m, you know, reminding my client to link to a certain landing page that is SEO optimised. At the end of the article, I mean, at the end of the interview, as opposed to their homepage. So yeah, from in my world, that’s pretty much all SEO in terms of measuring the takeaway

David Bain
from that, for me is actually to ask the client, what success looks like for them, and not assume that the traditional merit metrics that you happen to use is what you should report on. Because you might find, as you pointed out that having a logo is enough as a success story. And it might be something you’ve not pinpointed. That means the most to a client. So to have that conversation with the client, first of all, when I guess deliver your reporting, at least to incorporate those KPIs from the clients perspective, one other quick follow up question. Actually, I wasn’t absolutely sure what you were referring to when you were saying Dr. What does that stand for? Oh, domain range domain rank. Okay. I was thinking domain authority. Okay. Dr. I was, okay. Got you. Absolutely. Great. Okay, let’s some can park that particular discussion, and maybe head over to the second part of this discussion. So it’s now time for Diana’s thoughts in the state of New Digital Marketing today. So starting off with SECRET SOFTWARE, so Dan assure lesser-known martech tool that’s bringing you a lot of value the moment and why that tool is important for you.

Dayana Mayfield
Okay, so um, you know, when we’re talking about combining SEO and PR, SEO is still kind of like the foundation, right, and you’ve got to get your SEO content out there quickly. Otherwise, you don’t have a lot of time for all this promotion and PR. So my SECRET SOFTWARE of choice is storychief. We did mention it in my bio as a client. I’ve worked with them for a couple years, I think that not as many people know about them as we would like still working on that, of course. But yeah, so they get a lot of their traffic from SEO. Like, I think in terms of the brand, like they’re not like a super well known brand. But like, you know, still in terms of success doing really well, because we’re really focused on SEO and PR for them. But anyways, the tool itself is a content operations software that you can use to like publish and promote blog content faster. So to explain this, everybody knows what a social media scheduling tool is, like, if you’re if you’re all in on social media, you do social media as your like full time job, you use something like HootSuite or buffer. So storychief is like that for blogs, but also social media. So most content teams have very, like unoptimized content processes. They’re working inside of Google Docs. And then like, the writer has to put the alt text for the images and a comment on Google Docs. And then people have to edit it. And then once it gets edited, something’s somebody is copying, pasting and downloading and uploading images, and then adding the alt text, doing all this stuff inside of WordPress. So storychief is a central place where you can collaborate on content together, and then hook it up with your website, whether that’s like WordPress, or web flow or something else. And then once it’s approved, you just like click Publish to where you want it to go. And then it will, you know, publish it in all those places, you could even send it to medium. And it would tell Google that the medium one, you know was an approved, like republishing, so it wouldn’t be seen as like duplicate content. So it has that kind of coating in there. And then you can also use it to like send the posts to a list of ambassadors, if that was employee. Employees that publish the content to like their LinkedIn or something like employee advocacy. Or you could also send it to like a list of you have partner like content managers, where you promote each other’s content, occasionally, you could send it to them. And then you can also publish on social media. So there’s, it’s like the content, collaboration, publishing and promotion, all in one place.

David Bain
I’ve I don’t think, come across storychief before and I feel that I should have done because it looks like a wonderful platform, I see that the pricing starts off at about $100 a month or so. I can’t see the exact pricing because I’m forwarded to 80 pounds a month in the UK, and I can’t see the dollar my bonus for that. So what size of business roughly is storychief appropriate for it doesn’t look as if it’s quite appropriate for a one kind of person business? Because there’s a lot of collaboration involved here. Is there a minimum team size that you’d recommend for using the software? Yeah, so

Dayana Mayfield
it kind of depends. For like, there’s a use case for the one person but the main, like, average team size would be, you know, three to four for more marketers like, so like a marketing team at a company where there’s a few different people with their hands in the content marketing pot, which is pretty common, because often there’ll be a Content Manager. And then there might be two or three freelance writers like for the companies that are really doing SEO, that are really taking SEO seriously and getting out several posts per month. Yeah, they’ll have a Content Manager, two or three writers, and then maybe also a social media person that’s in like a promotion person. So yeah, so it’s definitely designed for content teams, teams that are, you know, collaborating on content. The use case for, you know, a one person shop is if you want to take SEO more seriously, and you find yourself getting kind of like bought down by, you know, like when you’re writing in WordPress, it kind of feels really technical. And like you’re just not, it just doesn’t feel as smooth or as easy to get things done, you can just do a trial of storychief. And you’ll see the the writer is really, really good like, when you are in there editing, it’s like a distraction free writer, or it’s just, it’s just really fun to write in it as a writer is really fun to write in it. And they have readability and SEO optimising tools right in there. And then there’s also like internal, you know, linking within your article. So there’s these things that are like, if you were to do it in WordPress, it would take so much longer, and you would be copying and pasting. And there’s just little things that can speed it up. And then you don’t have to like, give it to your assistant to publish it on your site, you just, you know, hit publish, and it goes. And then you can also schedule your promotion at the same time. So if you say, Okay, I want this blog to get published next Tuesday. And then I want this Facebook and Twitter posts to link to it at the same time. And then a week later, I want it to go again, and a month later, I want it to go again. So that kind of like evergreen content promotion. So that’s a major use case for a solo business owner, because, you know, we’re, it allows you to batch your work, because we tend to be like, oh, I need to be putting more content out there. And I and I don’t, you know, have the time. So it allows you to kind of batch your work and look at things in a more evergreen way and look at your whole content calendar, from your blog, your email and your social media, because it actually links up with your email marketing tool, too. So whether or not you’re linking to that blog, or just sending an email, it’s like you can kind of get that view of all of your content and schedule it. So yeah, I think if there was somebody that was struggling to batch their work, or you want to batch your work, and then you don’t want to look at it again, you don’t want to have to go logging into all these places. You know, depending on how much you charge for an hour of your time, that $100 could potentially pay for itself.

David Bain
Yeah, yeah. Okay, I won’t ask more questions about that. But I’m not going to go down that rabbit hole, just know, just go to storychief.io. If you want to look into that particular piece of software a little bit more, but let’s move on from something that you currently use to something that you’re going to use. So that is NEXT ON THE LIST. So what’s one marketing activity or tool that you haven’t tried yet, but you want to test soon? Okay,

Dayana Mayfield
so I’m gonna have a around the bell answer for this one, it’s something that I have tried, but I need to retry and do better. So I can admit failure. So I have this eco living website called de bring da y br i n g.com. And it is, you know, eco living tips and advice and things because I think obviously, we’re on the cusp of what needs to be a big cultural shift. Like we can’t expect other people to fix climate change for us. Like we also need to be less wasteful, travel less all these different things, like we have to establish a cultural shift in you know, developed countries, particularly, because we have such a higher carbon, you know, per per capita carbon emissions than developing countries. So I but I don’t have time to like write all of the content for this site. And it’s not as technical as what I do. So I was like, okay, I can definitely have more junior writers helping out with this. But I got all excited and got my budget, like, I just kind of was blowing my budget and, and hiring, you know, too many people. And I’m like, Okay, I’m going to retry this, and actually set a budget and stick to it. Because I’m already starting to get some page one rankings on this site. And it’s only been like, a couple months. So I’m really excited about it. But I’m like, Okay, I need to make sure it doesn’t like, take over my main business, because I have no idea how or if I would even monetize this, right. So I’m like, How do I monetize this? And do I want to monetize this? Is that even does that even feel right? So the next marketing activity I’m going to try is to actually stick to a budget when it comes to outsourcing SEO writing to more junior writers. And you know, kind of systematise things a little

David Bain
bit better. Yeah, I think that would last words. systemize Systemising systematising. What you do is absolutely key especially when you’re employing more junior workers. I mean, I use Upwork quite a bit and I found some wonderful people on there. But it hasn’t cost me there I think but I want to what you should generally do is just absolutely ensure that you have some easy to follow steps that that anyone can implement in order to actually get your project done. And if you don’t do that, then you absolutely need to pay a higher level because then you have to have someone that’s a little bit more able to come up with the concept before they actually do.

Dayana Mayfield
Exactly. That’s exactly right. You got to be ready to manage. And I do love Upwork to highly recommend, you can absolutely find great people on Upwork. Very true.

David Bain
Absolutely. Okay, well, let’s move on to this or that right. So this is the quick response reins, just 10 quick questions, two rows here. Try not to think about the answer too much. And you’re only allowed to say the word both on one occasion, so use it wisely. Are You Ready? Ready? Tick tock or Twitter. Tick tock Facebook or LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube or podcast. YouTube traffic or Leads. Leads paid search or SEO,

Dayana Mayfield
SEO

David Bain
ads or influencers.

Dayana Mayfield
Influencers

David Bain
Google ads or Facebook ads, Google ads, email marketing, chat marketing,

Dayana Mayfield
email marketing, more tech

David Bain
stack or all in one platform. martech stack one to one or scale. Scale. I think the first one was the one that I’m going to dive into just a little bit tick tock rather than Twitter. Why isn’t?

Dayana Mayfield
Well, I guess I was I kind of got stuck in like personal preferences. Like I’d rather watch Tik Tok videos and be on Twitter.

David Bain
So you haven’t been able to measure that as a valuable tool for digital PR yet

Dayana Mayfield
I did create an account like and talk about digital PR and SEO. And I did like get some traction. But I decided to pause it in terms of like a marketing activity because, you know, we can’t do it all. And I you know, you also got to spend time with your children. So I was like, You know what, I’m not gonna do this anymore. I’m just going to like watch hilarious tick tock videos. I love comedy. And I do strongly believe that there’s the most amount of comedy happening on tick tock versus other platforms.

David Bain
Yeah, it’s an interesting medium. I think I’m the same as I need to actually make a conscious decision not to pick this up in terms of having my content creator hat on and just maybe have a look at it occasionally to see what’s happening on it. But you have to be very conscious nowadays, as a creator just to select what medium what type of content and place to publish is right for you? Yeah, and then do a great job of that, I guess. Do you? Do you believe that? Or do you believe in doing better jobs and then fewer platforms?

Dayana Mayfield
I do believe in that. And also, I think it’s important to mention that a lot of marketers and business owners have tick tock FOMO don’t be afraid that opportunity will always be there. And the reason is that most people are not good at video content. Most people do not want to create video content. It’s just like YouTube. It’s like when YouTube like we don’t we’re not all walking around thinking, I must have a YouTube channel. If I don’t have a YouTube channel, I’m going to become irrelevant. And yet everybody’s thinking this about tick tock, but it’s simply not true. The opportunity will always be there. Because when you’re ready to create really great video content, learn how to do those hooks, learn how to make it snappy, and do those kind of transitions and all that stuff. There will still be all of the users all of the watchers that aren’t doing that, like there’s so many tick tock accounts that they’re just there to watch videos, they don’t have their own profile, just like on YouTube, how many people go to YouTube, but never make a video more people than make videos? So yeah, don’t trip on tick tock just just wait or never do

David Bain
it. Great advice. Yeah, the opportunity will always be there. If you create great quality content that’s right for the medium. But if you’re just creating average content, and just distributing it anywhere, nowadays, when there’s so many other people doing producing content, you’re not near as good as it gets seen by anyone. Let’s move on to the the $10,000 question. If I were to give you $10,000 And you had to spend over the next few days in a single thing to grow your business, what would you spend it on? And how would you measure success? Oh, I

Dayana Mayfield
would blow my budget for my junior writers.

David Bain
Is that blue?

Dayana Mayfield
Okay, no, that’s true. I would add to my budget temporarily. And you know, get my junior writers like cranking out a bunch of you know, SEO content for my Eco living website and see what I could do with that,

David Bain
which is great content for SEO SEO look like nobody’s is a certain length is a certain type of article, and how’d you actually measure whether or not it was worthwhile spending that money,

Dayana Mayfield
I would say length plus detail, you can never expect to rank everything. So there is somewhat of a spray and pray situation going on. Although it’s you know, you want to, you want to do quality over quantity, like you’re better off publishing two 3000 word articles than six 1000 word articles in most niches, unless it’s like a very new niche with like, very low competition that you have magically found, you’re gonna be better off doing, you know, length, but it’s not just about length, it’s also about detail. So like, if you’re doing, you know, the top 10 software for x, or the top 10 types of, you know, products, then it you want to talk about, like, What features does it have? What’s the pricing? What are some of the reviews, say? Like, every pretty much every article I’ve ever ranked, and I’ve ranked hundreds, for clients, they all just have detail in common, they have statistics, they have specific numbers, they have images and infographics. And so yeah, it’s not just about like, you know, let me just write a bunch of long stuff. But like formatting, how can I break up this h2 into these other sections like features pricing, or, you know, if it’s a how to article, you can break up one step into like the kind of sub steps with some bullet points or something like that. So detail

David Bain
rate advice, and talking about being magically found. Let’s change the focus to someone else who deserves it. So that is a MAGICAL MARKETER. So who’s looking coming marketer that you’d like to give a shout out to? What can we learn from them? And where can we find them,

Dayana Mayfield
so you can find Adrienne Barnes at best buyer persona.com. And, like me, she is a SAS content writer, but she is branching out into a new business, which is all about creating buyer personas, so that companies, you know, truly understand who their best buyer is, rather than act on assumptions, or kind of, you know, stick to like those same buyer personas for years and not really update them not understand how you know needs in the market has changed those sort of issues. And then she also kind of create multiple buyer personas, if you have, you know, multiple buyers for your products and services. Definitely still within B2B and mostly, mostly within SAS, but she does a lot of like customer interviews, and compiles all of that information into like a buyer persona, you know, document that can be shared across the whole company. So everybody’s on the same page with who they are selling to why what do they really, really care about, like not what we’re assuming, but what are they actually struggling with right now? What are their problems? And how do we solve them?

David Bain
I know I want to talk about buyer personas, and whether or not the content writers should develop a thing or whether they should exist already in house and lots of things like that. But maybe I should try and have a conversation like that with Adrian Barrett Barnes if possible. That was a lot of great value that you shared there. This was episode 270, Digital Marketing Radio, we’re down to Mayfield shared great thoughts about SEO PR to begin with be specific about your headlines in your own platforms, certainly like LinkedIn as well connect with journalists and comment on their posts. Focus on metrics that matter to your client as well don’t just think about reporting, what you think is right, you know, delve into what’s right for your client, and many other great tips as well. Your SECRET SOFTWARE was storychief. Your NEXT ON THE LIST was outsourcing content writing and your MAGICAL MARKETER was Adrian Barnes, who creates buying personas and content based upon that all of those tips and resources will be in the show notes at Digital Marketing radio.com. Diana, what’s the best social platform for someone to follow you and to say Hi.

Dayana Mayfield
Definitely LinkedIn in terms of like busineses stuff, or Instagram, I’m down to Mayfield on Instagram and LinkedIn. And then to learn more about my SAS copywriting services you can go to day on mayfield.com.

David Bain
Absolutely. Wonderful. Well, thanks for coming on. I’ve been your host David Bain. You can also find me producing podcasts and YouTube shows for B2B brands over at casting cred.com Until we meet again, stay hungry, stay foolish and stay subscribed. Aloha. radio.com radio.com pixel marketing radio radio digital marketing radio.com