Email Marketing in 2021 – with Teresa Heath-Wareing | DMR #236

Full transcript:

David Bain 0:00
Digital Marketing Radio Episode 236: Email Marketing in 2021,

Bot 0:05
Digital Marketing Radio with David Bain.

David Bain 0:10
Hi, I’m David Bain. And this is Digital Marketing Radio the show for in-house agency and entrepreneurial marketers who want to stay on top of the latest tools, tactics and trends shared by Modern Marketing masters email marketing has been around for a very long time longer in fact than the worldwide web itself. It seems that every few years we hear about another technology that’s going to be replacing email but email but email stubbornly clings on retaining its high level of importance for E business communication more than 40 years since the first mass email campaign was sent. In this episode 236 of Digital Marketing Radio we look at email marketing in 2021, how email marketing has changed and how best to incorporate email into your marketing mix now and moving forward. Joining me to discuss that is a lady who helps directors and senior managers of small to medium sized businesses ensure their marketing budget is being used to full effect. She also helps business owners coaches and freelancers achieve business growth and get out of marketing overwhelm through her online group coaching and step by step training. Welcome to DMR. Theresa-Heath Wareing

Teresa Heath-Wareing 1:23
Hello and thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, I slick is this like, you’re really showing me out now from a live streaming point of view?

David Bain 1:33
Let’s hope the slickness continues. That’s the that was a pretty slick No, it’s time for the the body slick. And then it’s I’m talking about SEO tags. But that’s another conversation perhaps because we’re not talking about SEO? We’re talking about email marketing today. And so email email isn’t dead yet, Theresa? No, you sure?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 1:56
No, we are hanging in there. And I think this is the the interesting thing. Because when you’ve been around in marketing, as long as I have, which is about 16 years now, I have seen email do some really amazing and odd and strange and brilliant things over those years in terms of its popularity in terms of what it does, how we use it in our businesses. But you would think that we get to a position like we are in today, where we have all these tools and strategies open to us that suddenly email marketing might come to a point where it really isn’t needed anymore. But actually, if anything, but in my eyes anyway, it really is needed more than ever, because we’re putting ourselves out on these amazing social media platforms, we’re doing all these things we’re connecting, but we’re always marketing on someone else’s platform. It doesn’t belong to us. So for me, still, and for the foreseeable email marketing is to stay.

David Bain 2:52
I mean, I remember three key different types of technology that were allegedly going to mean that email was going to die. I mean, first of all, with social media, and then it was platforms like Slack, and then it was chat marketing apps, and none of them seem to have made a significant impact on email. What Why is email refusing to go away?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 3:13
I think it’s dying to the fact of it’s something that pretty much everybody has, you know, everyone has an email address, you know, to do anything today, you need an email address. So, you know, to sign up to, or manage even things around the house, and, you know, everyone else running my address. So it’s pretty much I think I heard something the other day, and I don’t know how true this is, but it’s like, you know, only the homeless aren’t having email addresses, like, you know, literally everyone has them. So I think that’s the one thing. And the other thing for me is when they you know, when you’re looking at all those other options, they’re all based on someone else’s platform. They’re all based on technology that you don’t. And it’s not necessarily technology, because you don’t own an email platform. But the the data within it you own so your emails are yours. Whereas still in chat bots, and things like slack and those sorts of instant messenger things. It’s it’s some other system that you’re using

David Bain 4:09
to Johnny Ross is saying in the chance that he believes that email brings him the highest ROI. And what about best practice email? Has that changed a lot over the last few years? Because obviously, we’ve seen email marketing platforms evolve a little bit, maybe compared with five years ago, or So would you say that email strategy has changed a lot?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 4:29
Yeah, I think so. I think it’s just almost got stronger in its strategy. So I guess five years ago, we were starting to look at some of the automation we will look at remember five years ago, I think I was in Minneapolis with lead pages doing some training with them. And and I remember them showing me drip their email system and I was like, wow, you know, this can do some really cool stuff and, and I think it was more than that was then opened up to everybody as into smaller businesses. Not just The big businesses that could build their own platforms that could do cool stuff. So I think all it’s done is it’s kind of bedded in even more with those strategies. So the automation, the knowing who we’re talking to the knowing how they got on our list and what they want to hear from us. And then the personalization of how we can use that data in terms of having those conversations. I think those systems have got better. The I definitely think when I look back further away, you know, more than five years ago, it was like you send a newsletter once a month. And it’s like, No, that is not the case anymore. It’s more about, it’s almost like I likened it the other week to some students that it’s almost like it’s your social media, but just sending an email like, so you’d go on Instagram stories, new might post, I’ve done this today, I have this thing today, or did you know, I’ve just learned this new thing, or whatever. Email now is almost being treated a little bit like that it should be more of a conversation. So rather than in the past, where it’s like, here’s a newsletter read about us, I want to tell you about a house. Now it’s like, hey, this happened. If you had that happened, the man better let me know. Or I saw this, I thought you might really like it or because you downloaded this thing, or because you are part of this group. You might want this particular thing. So it’s much more personalised.

David Bain 6:24
Yeah, it’s a great way to encourage engagement as well, I think tradition is you send people so email as a one to many. And just a one way communication. And people often sent it from a no reply, email address, which I think was horrific. It’s nice to come from an email, and real real person as well. I remember you talking, you mentioned lead pages there. I I know, Clay Collins a little bit as well. I met him in Australia, when I was there. I’m doing a speech around at an event. I also attended a trading session that he did for lead pages in London about five years ago as well. And I think lead lead pages really helped to move email marketing forward, but by just designing beautiful landing pages. Yes. So I mean, what’s best best practice for landing pages nowadays, and what kind of call to action tends to work best?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 7:12
So at the moment, I think it’s about not just the landing page, it’s about where you’re sending them from. And it’s about for me, my, my tactics haven’t changed a whole lot. still kind of the crucial things like show them what they’re going to get, you know, engage them by kind of asking them a question, the call to action button should scream on the page? No. So it should really stand out, you know, to step really still works, just ask for the minimum amount of information. So those still stand. But for me, where I’m trying to get to is, I want that copy on that ad or that post, and the copy on the landing page to be as if I’m talking to you directly. So I think more we’re putting more emphasis on what are the pain points. So rather than just shoving together 10 things in a checklist, boom, they go get on my list. It’s like, okay, so who’s your customer? And then, and if you’ve got more than one customer, then that’s fine. But really, do you need a lead magnet for each? So each of those people? What is the thing that they’re really having trouble with? What is the pain that they’ve got? And how can you help them with a quick win? Get closer to fixing that pain? And so again, I think I think we went through a real phase of all the lead magnets were just rubbish, like, it was literally like, on a day like this. Yeah, what is it? And then, of course, as consumers are getting, and you know, people who download this stuff, they’re getting smarter, and they’re getting much more astute about who they give their email list or email address to, I think now for me, each one of my lead magnets is, like, so good. Like, you know, and I know you shouldn’t say that, right? Like, I make sure there’s really good stuff in it. Because the last thing I want you to do is go and download one of my things and think

what little rubbish,

because that’s it, I’ve lost my chance with you then. So So and also the lead magnets can now be different types of things. So it’s not just a PDF download, it might be a workshop, it might be a, you know, audio series, it might be a video series. So I think in terms of what we’re creating, obviously, we need to be creating different things for different people because they like different stuff as well. So So for me, it’s more about the kind of not necessarily the mechanics, because I think a lot of the mechanics are still the same. lead pages is a phenomenal, phenomenal company. I’ve been very lucky to have a lot to do with them over the years. But also, like I said, they created an amazing platform where there wasn’t anything really as strong as that on the market.

David Bain 9:44
So where’s the best place to have that call to action that lead capture because I haven’t looked at your website to see if waring.com and your initial button on your homepage is complex. Let’s begin your I empower amazing entrepreneurs to start and scale their online businesses. Let’s begin. I mean, you scroll down to your site and explain a little bit more about what you’re about. And so you wouldn’t necessarily then advocate having a call to action as the first thing that someone is encouraged to do on the homepage of your website,

Teresa Heath-Wareing 10:12
you can do and actually, as you scroll down my site, you’ll see that there’s like three pictures of clipboards. And those are three different lead magnets. Also, sometimes I use pop ups, sometimes I don’t necessarily change the homepage banner, I leave that pretty static as it is. But it’s where I put it in other places. So for instance, like I said, I will use pop ups on occasion on the site, if we got something new or whatever, I’ll use facebook, facebook ads, and I’ll put lead magnets on ads, I’ll put them on social media all the time. And this is where lots of people go wrong, or maybe don’t realise the work it takes. So I’ve got lots of people that will come and do I do a build my list course. So basically, I take them from nothing, and literally walk them holding their hand for 10 days. And we build the entire thing, including all the tech. And then we get to the end of the process. They’ve got their lead magnet, they’ve got their onboarding emails, they’ve got their social media posts, all this stuff that we’ve given them, all the templates, all the swipe files, they’re created this thing. And then I have to say to them, right, and now you have to post it every single week, and keep posting it and keep posting it and keep posting. And this is when lots of people go wrong. They either hide it, they’re not permitted to hide it. But they either like put somewhere at the bottom of the page or in like a tiny bit in the control module in my email that’s like the quietest thing ever, or they have a lead magnet, they put it out three, four times. And then they think that’s enough. You know, all my lead magnets that are on my site that I have in play at the moment. They’re all in my social media, they go out every so often, every couple of days, there’s another mention of it. Or I might put a post on Instagram and then say, oh, I’ve you know, I’ve got a freebie about this, go and check it out here and point them in the direction. So it’s about every opportunity things like your cover photos for your social media, why not put it on your cover photo pinned posts, put it on the bottom of your normal email signature, because people who email me don’t tend to be on my email list, which is weird, but they don’t you know, because we’re having a personal conversation. So it’s about knowing that you’ve got to put it out there so strongly and not be scared to keep doing that. Okay.

David Bain 12:28
And a couple of quick follow up questions. Obviously, we touched upon the fact that a few years ago, people had lead capture pages that weren’t particularly conversational. So do you want to encourage people to actually incorporate what they can expect by a subscriber, getting information from their email list on the landing page is a summary in the land landing page about what type of email the subscriber will expect to receive by subscribing? And also in relation to that? what’s what’s best best practice in terms of quantity of emails to send out cadence you touched you touched upon social type email is Does that mean that you actually advocate in frequent email sending now? Or is it best to be quite consistent in terms of days a week that you send emails on?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 13:18
Okay, cool. So first part, in terms of landing page will tell them what they can expect. So if you have got a landing page that specifically is, is aimed at just getting them on your list? So you’ve got a button somewhere or you put on social media join my email list, then yes, absolutely. On that landing page, tell them what they’re going to get. Why should they bother? You know, if they’re following you on social media? What’s going to be different over there? Or how, how will that benefit them? If it’s a lead magnet, so let’s say you check out one of the lead magnets, which is something like 10 things to put on your sales page to help that convert. I don’t talk about what you’re going to the emails going forward at that point, all I talk about on that landing page is what is included in that download, get this download because this, this is what how it will benefit you. This is what it’s going to do, then in your onboarding sequence. And that’s where you could then say, Okay, let’s get to know each other. This is how I work. This is what I do. And that really nicely feeds into the cadence of it because there’s no hard and fast rule. Now. I have to say I am. I’m really not a fan now of like the once a month type emails, because that’s 12 emails, 12 touch points in an entire year. That’s just not enough. So ideally, I would like to see or I think, you know, again, some industries and things will change. But once a week is probably great. I think if you are using your email marketing as a form of content, which I do, then I’m now actually up to three times a week, and I normally email on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday and But I actually don’t, I used to conform to just one day and be like, Okay, this needs to be a very specific day that I send these emails. But for me now, because if something comes up, and I think it’s going to be useful, then I want to check an email, it’s people. And, and in terms of the content that’s in those emails, it’s not about kind of trying to it’s not the new mine aren’t the newsletter form. So Mine isn’t, check this, check this, check this check this mine is this one thing, it’s really cool, it does this thing, here’s the link, go check it out. See you later. Like, it’s, it’s quite full, you know, fairly short. And I say fairly short, sometimes they’re not really sure. But you know, it’s focused, that’s the word, it’s focused on one aim of learning or one story or one tool or one tip. But I am using it more and more. But I think it’s one of those things that I think you have to, you have to get to that point. So if you’re listening to this, and you’re just starting on email marketing, then trying to every other week, as as your minimum if you can do every week, great. But then once you get into the swing of things, and you get team members and you grow a bit that maybe it’s not so hard to do three times a week like it. And

David Bain 16:16
because you do three times a week, does that mean that your open reads or click through rates suffer, and what kind of open rates and click through rate should a business be aiming for nowadays,

Teresa Heath-Wareing 16:26
so my good friends, Robin Kennedy informed me of something a little while back, which is really helpful to know that the click through rates just don’t, they don’t really exist as it were, they’re not very good in terms of actually tracking, because some of the systems out there won’t allow it to be tracked. So when you look at an open rate, it kind of isn’t really worth its salt, in terms of the click through rate. And that’s where you really know whether that’s the case, okay. So they can’t, when someone clicks, it’s absolutely sure that they clicked and therefore that’s the thing to track. Interestingly enough, the more you do, the more the likelihood is they will interact with the emails, but it comes down to what you’re emailing them and and, and the value you’re giving them. If you’re not giving them any value, then they’re not going to open your emails, they’re not going to click on it. But if you’re giving them value, if you’re adding those things, if they know when they open one of your emails, the chances are, you know, I’m going to tell you something that will be useful for running your business, then you’re more likely to open have a scan at the very least before you delete it rare and one of the reasons I email more frequently now is because then when I go into, say a car open mode, or if I go into a, I’m running my build my list course again, and I start then, you know, can you imagine if I did one email a month, and then suddenly in car open, I’m like email every single day and then three on the last day like they wouldn’t put up with that. So it’s managing the kind of, you know, I’m pushing the limits a bit in terms of like, you know, if you don’t want to get this information, that’s cool. You don’t have to, you can delete them or you can unsubscribe, and that’s okay. But this is what I’m likely to do. I want to give you value, I want to add things. And therefore you’ll hear from me fairly frequently.

David Bain 18:19
Jamie Ervin watching live on youtube on LinkedIn saying loving this huge value value bombs. Thank you, Jamie, great to have you. Yeah. And just one final thought on email, we touched upon your how its evolved, and how it could have been overtaken by other forms of communication, like chat marketing, like chatbots. But it hasn’t really been Do you think it’s worthwhile trying to offer an email subscription on a chat marketing subscription in tandem? Or does email more effective? And is it better just to have a singular call to action?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 18:52
No, I think generally having the option as to where they can interact with you is a good thing. My only concern with this is that some business owners are going to look at it if you’re not a big marketing team. If you haven’t got a team with you, you’re going to be like how on earth do I manage all this? You know, and obviously, there are lots of tools out there that can help and do various things. But it is more work, obviously, you know, sending one email or sending email and then a chatbot and then something else. So in my mind, there’s I would want to offer myself up sounds weird, in a way that would suit someone else. So you like listening, I’ve got the podcast, you want to read, listen, get my emails, do you like video, I’ll go live, you know what I mean? It’s like giving them the option to take in the content on the terms that they like. So I actually think if you have capacity and that’s the key thing. I would hate someone to try and do all these bits and doing terribly. I’d much rather you go you know what? I’m going all in on this platform and all in on any emails and that’s it. You won’t find me on the chat bot you won’t find me over on that platform. You You won’t find me in YouTube, you’ll find me in these two places. And being really strong with both of them,

David Bain 20:05
I’d much rather than great advices. So it’s hard to say no to things. But when you do it, sometimes you deliver higher quality. Let’s segue Exactly. Let’s move over to Sam, part two of our discussion. So it’s time for Teresa starts in the state of digital marketing today. So starting off with SECRET SOFTWARE, so Teresa share a lesser-known martech tool that’s bringing you a lot of value at the moment and why that tool is important for you.

Teresa Heath-Wareing 20:28
So this is a brand new tool that I’m using not as an it’s brand new. And this is the thing, there’s so many tools out there, I was thinking what can I say that not many people know. But the truth is, you might know any of the videos so but one of the things that I’m doing to up my game in my own Academy is I’ve just added in the tool add event. And like I said this could be old school to everybody else. And you all might be sat there going, Yeah, come on, get with the programme. But basically, I, I have an academy, it has coaching goals, it has lives, it has training, it has all these key events. And at the moment, we’ve been kind of just scheduling them and putting them up in a diary and showing them that way. And I did some training, which I haven’t done for a long time with with another person. And I used add event and it basically downloaded the entire calendar to my calendar. So now I can see what events are coming up for her in my calendar, which for me is so useful because I know what would happen, I think of as a coaching call on Thursday evening, she emailed me three times telling me there’s a fair chance I’m going to miss it because it’s not in my diary. So I don’t want to go through plug all these dates in myself. So these diaries are like share buttons so that you can have things to counter but also that you can subscribe to an entire calendar. So I my members when it’s because I’m literally in the process of setting this up, my members can have can subscribe to the marketing that converts Academy calendar. And it’s going to put every single thing we do into their diary. So I’m loving that one right now

David Bain 21:57
let’s move on from something that you currently use to something that you’re going to use. So that is NEXT ON THE LIST. So what’s one marketing activity or tool that you haven’t tried yet, but you want to try soon.

Teresa Heath-Wareing 22:07
So this is gonna sound really silly, given it’s not anything new. And I kind of do it anyway. But I don’t do lives out of my Academy, I, I have all the live streaming setup, I have the camera and the thing and everything. And I actually really love doing lies. But for some unknown reason, I’ve not done them out on my page, they are literally part of the paid membership. So actually, it’s in the plan. And we discussed it this morning that we’re going to move to perhaps do some lives out of the Academy, answering some questions, because we’ve changed the way we do our social media. And I always have done my own social media now where I’m working with one of my team, and we are being really strategic about right, what’s our focus this week? You know, and I want to share maybe a story or a myth or something that annoys me or, you know, and then it can what tip Can I share? Is there a tool? Is there a lead magnet? So we’re being really strategic? So we’re looking at when we can plug in the lives to help support that content? So not new to anybody else? But

David Bain 23:13
new to me. Great, okay, well, it’s important to have a line have a distinction between the content that you deliver that’s free, and the content obviously, that you deliver to your members. So does that mean that the the live streaming content that you do will only be for your members, and for people who aren’t members yet they won’t get live streams?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 23:30
No, the live streaming content externally, will be around particular subjects in it might be just q&a stuff, it’s going to be very, a very toned down version. So when I do lives into the Academy, one most of my lives have to do with Mark and mindset now, which is nice, I love it. But they are lessons and they are activities. So we did a values workshop the other day where all my members got to work out what their values were. And then in reflection, it are the businesses and their life meeting their values. And that’s where they can see things disjointed and whatever. And so that was a real activity that we all walked through on the live. Whereas when I do external, it’s going to be a bit of teaching a bit a q&a bit of adding value. And

David Bain 24:21
that’s where it kind of stops. Great. Okay, well, let’s move on to this or that route. So this is a quick response round 10 quick questions, Just 2 rules here. Try not to think about the answer too much and you’re only allowed to see the word both on one occasion, so use it wisely. Are you ready? Okay, Okay, got it. Tick Tock or Twitter, Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn,

Teresa Heath-Wareing 24:45
Facebook,

David Bain 24:46
YouTube or podcast, podcast, traffic or leads. Leads paid search or SEO. SEO ads are in influencers, ads, Google ads or Facebook ads,

Teresa Heath-Wareing 25:06
Facebook ads,

David Bain 25:07
I know for the easiest one email marketing or chat marketing,

Teresa Heath-Wareing 25:11
go email,

David Bain 25:14
Mar tech stack all in one platform all in one platform and one to one or scale.

Teresa Heath-Wareing 25:23
Scale.

David Bain 25:25
That was relatively easy. I think the biggest challenge you had was paid search or SEO. What why was that a challenge?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 25:31
Yeah. Because neither one I’m brilliant. But paid search is that is a minefield I I did two of the three Google exams, many years ago, well, three, four years ago, and even doing them and pass sigma, I still didn’t know what the hell I was doing. So I do fit in for someone who can do Facebook ads with relative ease. That really blew me away. So I think there’s a lot. I mean, I know SEO has got a lot going on. But yeah, for that I really struggled with.

David Bain 26:08
Yeah, paid search has changed so much over the years, it used to be so easy. I mean, I was involved with peer to peer search fairly, fairly early on, I remember back in about 2005. Doing arbitrage. So I used to publish a website about particular content and have Google AdSense on there. And then you use Google ads to drive traffic to my web page. And I used to be able to get traffic for less than five cents a click and make more money from the ads that people were clicking on. But that was another was a lifetime ago. Really?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 26:42
That’s amazing.

Yeah, I’m not sure you get away with that today.

David Bain 26:47
Yeah, exactly, exactly. It’s a different life completely. And just to tell the listener that I’m actually interviewing a gentleman called Mike Rhodes. Tomorrow, the reason I mentioned that just now he’s his co author on a book on Google ads. So in terms of finding out more about Google ads, and that’s the episode to listen to tomorrow morning, that’ll be live from Australia that I’m big, it’d be interesting hims, I’m managing to persuade him to appear in the evening, Australia time. But let’s move on to in this conversation, the $10,000 question and three. So if I was to give you $10,000, you had to spend over the next few days in a single thing to grow your business? What would you spend it on? And how would you measure success?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 27:28
You know, I felt like this, I just think, like, it’s so easy to go ads or something like that. But you know what I would spend it on my team, I’d spend it on, I’ve got a few team members that do various different things. And I think I would like throw the money at getting more of their time. Because the one thing I can’t do is create more time for myself. And I have a list of long as my arm of things that we should be doing could be doing. And I think if I had that money just to use immediately, it would be like, Okay, I’m going to give you 10 grand, you give me your hours. So a bit only because I know I’ve got some really good team members. So that’s why I would give them all more hours and more time with me.

David Bain 28:14
And would that be outsource contract workers? Or do you like to employ people if possible?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 28:20
No, all my team are freelance. So even I have full time and she’s freelance too. So it’s just the fact of getting the work done quicker. Whereas when it’s just you in your business, it’s like, especially when you’re just starting off, you literally can only do what you can do in your hours. Whereas now I’ve got the team. What’s lovely is one I’ve got people to back things off. We had a team meeting this morning with a couple of us, you know, I can talk them through what I’ve done, they can give me their opinions. We can go back I can then go Okay, I’ve gone this far. Can you now take that and do x y Zed with it? It just feels like if I could have more of that than I could achieve so much

David Bain 29:01
growing. Okay, well, to finish off let’s continue along the theme of giving other people a shade eight and that is with the MAGICAL MARKETER who’s an up and coming marketer that you’d like to give a shout out to what can we learn from them and where can we find them?

Teresa Heath-Wareing 29:15
Okay, so I am going to pay my lovely friend Ben Bellamy, who is his workmates in the academy. And he is a he actually does websites for people. He did my website. But he is working really hard on developing his own services around coaching and marketing for website developers. So he’s just one of these people that like does all the things works really hard. has great ideas. great value, and yeah, it’s red carpet and stuff like that. So he’s a good shade.

David Bain 29:56
superba No, is that some Ben Bellamy dog Koto UK? I think it is because I’m looking at the website and saying, Hi, I’m Ben, I’m a web international designer living in Exeter, Devon who builds his website. There we go. And that’s his website address. Superb. Well, you’ve been listening to Theresa he’s wearing so in today’s episode of Digital Marketing Radio shared lots of incredible advice by email to begin with. Saying that your email should be with a social mindset that you should be emailing at least once a week, and that you should consider having your email subscription options in different places, shared lots of wonderful software including add event.com links to everything. Of course, it could be in the show notes at Digital Marketing radio.com. And also your NEXT ON THE LIST. You’re talking about doing more live streams to your members and your MAGICAL MARKETER of course, Ben Bellamy. So as I said, everything that Theresa mentioned is going to be in the shownotes Digital Marketing radio.com. And of course, you can check out YouTube as well. We’re going to be broadcasting next live very, very soon, Theresa, what’s the best social platform for someone to follow you and say hi.

Teresa Heath-Wareing 31:07
So as you can imagine, I’m on all of them. But my favourite is Instagram. So come and finally if that just says receipt wearing and you’ll find me superb.

David Bain 31:16
We’ll do that Sam. Say hello to Teresa and thank her for her knowledge bombs that you shared today. Great stuff. I’ll be your host David Bain. You can also find me producing podcasts for B2B brands over at Casting cred.com if you want to watch the episode live next episode live Of course I mentioned that already. Go to YouTube and subscribe there hit the notification bell and of course if you’re already watching live that’s fine. If you’re listening to the replay, you’re probably doing that on Apple podcast Spotify. And if you haven’t told a friend already do that. Please it’s good to share until we meet again Stay Hungry stay foolish and stay subscribed. Aloha

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