How agencies can increase client performance, decrease churn, and stabilize their revenue – with Shaun Clark | DMR #261

Full transcript:

David Bain
Digital Marketing Radio were Episode 261 how agencies can increase client performance, decrease churn and stabilise their revenue.

Bot
Digital Marketing Radio with David Bain.

David Bain
I’m David Bain. And this is Digital Marketing Radio, their podcast needs your show for in-house agency and entrepreneurial marketers who want to stay on top of that. He says tools, tactics and trends, as shared by today’s modern marketing masters. Do you run? Or might you be running or planning on running a marketing agency? If so, you’re probably experienced, oh, you’re going to experience clients coming and going, and revenue going up and down. In this episode 261 of Digital Marketing Radio, we’re going to be looking at why clients leave and why revenue isn’t as stable as you’d like, and how to fix it. Joining me to discuss that is the co founder of a marketing platform designed especially to help agencies thrive. He is the CEO of high level. Welcome to DMR Shaun Clark.

Hey, thanks for having me. It’s great to be here.

Yeah, thanks for coming on, show him. So you can find shown over at go high level.com. So you must have seen you must see so many agencies. And I guess you see a typical trend in the challenges that agencies are facing? What are maybe some of the biggest challenges that you’re seeing agencies face at the moment, Shaun?

Shaun Clark
Yeah, sure. So I mean, we work with about 11,000 agencies now on the platform. And I’ve talked to at least a couple 1000 of them over the last three and a half years. And I would say that scaling and churn reduction are always the two hot topics for most agencies I talk I talk to so I would say those are the two dominant trends that that we discuss all the time.

David Bain
So how about starting with churn reduction reduction, then because that’s possibly a challenge for maybe the old types of agencies or agencies that are starting off? Because perhaps someone is gathering 610 12, their first clients and things are going quite well. And then all of a sudden, people start leaving them. So so what are maybe some of the typical reasons that a client leaves an agency?

Shaun Clark
Yeah, sure. So I think that there’s a lot of debate around this topic, and people like to talk about it from a really logical standpoint. So because it seems like it makes sense. So they would say, Well, you know, they’re probably leaving, because you’re not, you know, meeting with them enough, or you’re not showing them enough results, or, you know, those sorts of things. It’s sort of it’s a communication solution that I often hear. And I don’t think that there’s not some validity to that, don’t get me wrong, but I also think that at some point, most agencies are serving a small business, and that small business has a psychological hang up around simple things like price point. So, you know, the traditional agencies that we work with are running retainer models. And, you know, they’re saying, Oh, you know, for $3,000 a month, or 15 $100 a month plus ad spend, I can do this that the other thing, and the reality is, is that I think that most of them do exactly what they promise, but I think most small business owners don’t have the time to sit down and really crunch the numbers, look at the data, understand that these leads came in went through this stage of the pipeline. And this, many of them walked in the door, which got them this much ROI. I just don’t think that they have that kind of time. I think it’s like they come out, they come up for air once a month. They look at the bills they’re paying, and they say, Oh, $3,000, that’s expensive. What are we getting for that? I don’t know, let’s just go ahead and pause that. And then we’ll think about it later. And it’s just a very quick psychological snap decision. And I think it makes the agency that means the agency loses their customer. And I think that, ultimately, that I think that psychology is at the root of why most people lose a customer also, does that mean almost always.

David Bain
Does that mean that not enough agencies are building decent relationships with enough people within organisations. So when someone moves on, or perhaps they haven’t had the the quantity and regularity of communication from you, then they don’t immediately they can’t immediately articulate the value to other people internally within the company. And that’s a reason that someone moves on. Well, I

Shaun Clark
mean, I think I mean, I think I think the answer is maybe, right. I mean, I still think that again, think about that traditional small business that you’re serving, the dentist’s office may or may not have a person within the organisation who has time to sit down and even get to know you or because you’ve probably sold to the dentist themselves, for example, right. And it’s, you know, generally in most small businesses that the owner is also at some level, if not completely the operator. And they’re the generator of the revenue and so how much time do they have to be sitting down and going over all kinds of data with you or information with you, I honestly think that their time is very limited. So even for agencies that try very hard to keep a regular cadence, It may have very little to do with the agency, again, it may have to do with the businesses that they serve. And And honestly, again, their appetite or ability to continuously pay a large recurring fee to someone for a service. In fact, I always ask people named me a service that a small business pays that amount of money for every single month consistently, over a very long period of time. And I think there are very few examples, if any, that were a small business traditionally, would pay that kind of money. And so as a result, I think that’s a very high health hill to climb for the average agency.

David Bain
So do agencies then have to, either except that clients are only going to stay for X amount of time? Or are they going after the wrong clients? And do they have to go after different clients?

Shaun Clark
I think I think neither, I think yes, and no. So I think that in reality, the broader answer is they need to expand the portfolio of the solutions that they’re providing. And I think those solutions need to model after other things that those business owners do pay for, for many, many, many, many years, versus just simply relying only on services in order to continue to work with those people. Because I think many of those customers are credibly durable businesses, if you look behind the business itself and say, Okay, well, after they leave the agency, does that business go on? Then again, for you know, do they continue to operate for five years? 10 years? I think the answer is invariably Yes, they do. I don’t think again, it is it is the fact that they’ve chosen the quote unquote, wrong customer, I think there is just an inevitable variability to a small businesses appetite and ability to consistently pay for recurring revenue services at that price point. It’s just that simple.

David Bain
So I’m seeing quite a few agencies specialise in terms of the services that they offer, there are quite a few agencies that just focus on for example, Facebook advertising, is that inherently a poor business model for the long term,

Shaun Clark
terrible business model, but also a very predictable business model? Because if you’re a newer agency, or you’re getting into a why become an agency, it sounds really straightforward. And And hey, you know what, we’re going to teach you one thing, you’re going to sell it to one vertical, you’re gonna get really specialised. And I think from the outset, it feels like, yeah, that ought to work, right. But if you put yourself in the shoes of the business owner, they don’t know what you know, they don’t know what Facebook ads are versus Google Ads versus SEO versus they don’t know any of that stuff. They just know they need digital marketing. And they’re looking for someone who can help them with that. And I think that if you pigeonhole yourself into one service, then you’re you’re asking for yourself to be easily replaceable. It’s kind of like saying, I run a bank, but all we do is have checking accounts. So if you need savings, or a mortgage or car loan, go someplace else, well, you’re invariably gonna lose that client. But the challenge, right, is it’s easy to say that now how do you execute that if you’re a single owner operator? Ultimately, I think that what I found is that telling somebody, hey, listen, the bigger agencies, the more established agencies, they provide a full suite of marketing services, you ought to do the same. Sounds like wonderful advice. But the execution of that is where it all goes wrong, because most smaller agencies are both selling and delivering simultaneously, which is also a huge mistake on their part. So what what they need right is they need something else they need another way, in order to actually solve for this because there’s been white label outsourcing firms, we even have a white label outsourcing arm inside of our own software platform, which I spun up to try to help agencies specifically with this issue. But at the end of the day, there’s also the idea that let’s say they do have a great resource to Google AdWords or SEO or something like that, they still have to learn how to sell those products. And oftentimes, that’s a big hill declined for them. So again, I can say, Oh, yeah, just do all the services. But getting to that point is incredibly challenging.

David Bain
Okay, so you can start off by offering a single service, but ideally, you’re gonna have a portfolio of services to keep clients interested in over the long term. What about the type of clients that you’re trying to attract? Is it reasonable to just focus in on one particular type of client, maybe legal sector in the UK or builders in the US just one particular type of client?

Shaun Clark
Well, actually, before I get before I get to that, let’s go back to that last topic. So I would actually said that’s not the answer. The answer isn’t to add a full breadth of services. Yeah, maybe eventually. But initially, I think agencies need to start offering technology. I think that if you look at what businesses consistently buy, and pay for every month, month, after month after month, our software products, they’re incredibly sticky. They’re very, they’re a lower price point. And they and they’re in they’re all automated, and they’re very scalable. So there are a lot of small business software products out there today, that businesses will buy, and they are going to pay $300 a month for that product, $600 a month for that product. And they’re gonna use it for 10 years, and there’s very little labour involved. But the most important thing is back to the price point issue. The businesses Oh, yeah, you know, we got one sale off of that paper, it was $300. We’ll take it that’s a consistent price I can pay I don’t have to worry about Got it, it doesn’t rise to the very top of my expenses list. And it’s very unlikely to get cut. And so I think the way agencies need to create durability, ultimately, in their practice is to be able to introduce technology products that can be recurring in revenue, and that allow them to lose, lose and gain services over time with their customers without completely losing the customer and losing any revenue from that customer. Okay,

David Bain
so I was just interviewing Ollie Gardner for the previous episode, Episode 260. And he was sharing that bubble.io was a platform that he was just getting into a platform that let him develop software develop little apps applets for within webpages as well. So it’s becoming easier certainly to build your own software nowadays, does that mean that as an agency, on average, your price point should be lower, and you should be looking at having quite a high number of clients,

Shaun Clark
I would say that you should think about this as adding another tool to your bag. And I would highly recommend against trying to build your own software. So I’m sure that it’s easier than it’s ever been. But in reality, you can’t do everything. You can’t write software, sell services, fulfil Facebook ads, you can’t you can’t do all of these things, what you need to do is you need to find a platform that allows you to take those critical tools that the business needs that are already in existence today. And just simply be able to sell them to your client, hopefully on a white label basis. So that way, your brand can be the brand that that client sees every single day, not only as they use your services, but also as they use the software that you’ve brought them that they can now use in their, their businesses to really do all of the digital sort of things that they need to do on a go forward basis. Things like to a text messaging with their clients, getting more Google reviews, you know, web chat, all of those sorts of functionalities that every small business is going to have five years from now, they really ought to be buying it from the agency.

David Bain
Okay. Okay. So software, that’s an important part of the future offering for us an agency. What about other aspects of what you can offer as an agency to training wherever consultancy? Is that becoming more common or less common nowadays?

Shaun Clark
I mean, I hear about it. I mean, I think it’s agency agency. Right. So I think it’s something that that you can absolutely offer. When when we look at the big issue, though, it’s I mean, there’s certainly people who probably need sales, consulting, and maybe a lot, but the the big gap is not in the generally speaking, if I can put someone in the dentist office, the dentist tends to do a decent job converting them to a patient. If they’re that horrible, they probably didn’t get to the stage where they could afford to hire an agency, right. And so I ultimately find that the lead nurturing is where phase four, most businesses fall down, the agency is generating lead, they’re putting it on a spreadsheet, they’re saying, Hey, Mr. Customer, look at the amazing lead, I got you and the customer will look back at them and say, What are you talking about? They didn’t come into my business, they didn’t meet with me, they didn’t buy my stuff, I don’t understand. And then agencies like oh, well, you know, you have to like call them and you have to, like ask them to come in and stuff. It’s, you know, like, you have to follow up. And the business owner is like, I don’t want that I want customers not leads right. And ultimately, we feel like that is actually the bigger focus for most agencies. It’s that lead nurturing process, where that most of their customers are going to fall down. And when they do fall down, they don’t blame themselves. They blame the agency. And I see this is where agencies lose their customers all the time.

David Bain
What about agencies that don’t focus on things that result in immediately generations? I’m thinking of different types of content marketing, higher up the funnel, justifying the value on that? How should a business or an agency go about pitching the value of doing that without being able to drive immediately from from what they’re doing?

Shaun Clark
I think they should rethink their long term strategy. Why is the business what I what I want, again, what I see is as a small business, and this is probably different if your Ford Motor Company or something, right. But if you’re an if you’re an operating business, at the end of the day, what you’re looking for is a marketing partner that can holistically serve your needs. And as cool as it is to have blog entries or social media posts or something else, it should result in something. And as an agency, if you can’t tie your work to some kind of ultimate revenue line for that small business. I think you’re you have a de minimis value over time. I think you may have the greatest content writing skills of all time. But if you can’t prove to your customer, that your your items that you’re working on actually result in more business. What’s the point of hiring you anyways? I don’t need more blog articles anymore customers.

David Bain
So you were telling me before we got started that you’ve appeared on over 100 different podcasts, I think, how do you measure? That was an estimate. Okay, okay. Just to be honest, okay. Okay. So I mean, even if it’s, you know, 40 or whatever it is, you’re probably seen a positive reason for wanting to do that. How do you measure the The success of it has you measure the value of doing that.

Shaun Clark
Sure, I mean, we look at the traffic that we get from those podcasts, right? So we look at that among people who click links that we leave with those podcast hosts and look at the number of people who come in from those lead sources and try to measure those. So we definitely do our level best to measure them. But I would say that in in our, in our case, we don’t we don’t pay tremendous amount for the podcast. So. So the cost of entry is low. Yeah,

David Bain
yeah. But obviously, your your, your time is important as well. And certainly, if you’re a small business owner, you’ve got to make sure that you’re being as valuable as possible. With your time, obviously, you’re absolutely talking about lead generation, by peering and podcast is a little bit further up the funnel. So that’s why I guess I was leaning into that one there. Oh, absolutely. I know

Shaun Clark
exactly where you’re going with that one. But as a small but think about most small businesses, right. So you know, if you look at how many of them are, let’s say, are, are at that place at that stage, where those top of funnel activities are actually beneficial relative to what they’re already doing. So how many of them have already have a really great Google My Business optimization that’s already been done. They’re running local service ads, they’re running Google AdWords, they’re landing people on a good funnel, they have automated lead nurturing in place, like how many of them have already covered those bases, and now they’re going top of funnel for, you know, like, more content driven strategies. I just don’t think that’s the commonplace scenario. I think most of these businesses, if you take took a look, you know, I are not honestly doing any of those things up front, or very few of those things up front. And that’s really where they need the help the most, if they did, some of those most basic activities, that return on investment would be tremendous, relative to some of the other content strategies, they’re just not there yet is the thing.

David Bain
Yeah, that’s a great point. If someone concentrates on something like SEO, then you can drive lots of traffic to your website. But if it doesn’t convert, there’s no point in doing it at all. So start off with your website, your funnel.

Shaun Clark
And I don’t think it’s that difficult. By the way, if you’re in that, let’s say you’re in the SEO game, and you’re you’re ranking websites, it’s not that hard to then take a platform, like high level and put a form on a website, be able to show that not that that person then converted, put them into the system, automatically nurture the lead, and then book them using AI and machine learning on a calendar for your customer and say, Hey, listen, you’re ranked number two, you got this much traffic, we captured these leads for you, and then they booked on your calendar. Wow, isn’t that amazing? Like, that’s what your customer wants. That’s what you need to deliver.

David Bain
I’d like to get your thoughts on one other phrase that’s commonly used at the moment, and that is a productize. Service. Should agents be looking to do that? Or can it be more fruitful financially by just focusing on on bespoke offers? Not having pricing on your website?

Shaun Clark
Yeah, I mean, it all depends. I mean, I obviously I come at this with a very biassed view. I mean, I think that if I think that the software can very much be the backbone of your recurring revenue model, right. From where we’re, you know, where we’re at today, we see agencies bringing in, you know, 10 to $100,000 a month in recurring software revenue, in addition to the services that they come out with, right. So in that case, I almost think that’s not a bad business to be in. So if you want to go bespoke, because you really like it, I would say, go for it. I think it all depends on also how you approach the market. So back to your original question on on niching out, I think that if you serve a particular vertical, there’s a decent, there’s a decent opinion there to be made that what works for one attorney probably works for other attorneys, right. And so by productizing, your service, quote, unquote, just basically making the same strategies turnkey. That seems like a logical thing to do. To me, I think that’s great. But again, even if it’s a productized service, I still think it comes back from a price point perspective, I think that helps internally from the agency perspective on cost reduction, on you know, speed to delivery, those sorts of things. But think about it from the point of view of the outside client, do they really know it’s a productize? service? Not necessarily. So the question then is, how does it impact them? How do they see the ROI? And how does that impact the long term term dynamics because that’s what ultimately matters, whether it’s bespoke, or it’s productize, it’s still the term that defines your success

David Bain
or failure. I love that point. So actually view what you’re doing as a productize service, whether or not you’re marketing it as that publicly on your website. And that actually reminds me of the book, e myth by Michael Gerber. Because he talks about the franchise prototype, whether or not you’re actually going to franchise your business or not, if you consider your business as a franchise and get everything as efficient as possible. That’s probably the best way for you running your businesses is for potentially franchising it in the future.

Shaun Clark
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think those are really good ways to think about how you know, because every business Are you, are you going to sell your business someday. Are you going to exit your business someday? And if you do, what is it going to look like to a potential buyer? Do you have a healthy recurring revenue stream that’s growing every month? Or are your revenues constantly waving up and down because they are You’re gonna get a lot lower valuation than a consistent, durable growing revenue stream.

David Bain
Is there in relation to that? Just before we move on to the next section, what does an agency need to do to better structure their business? So it can be sold in the future, as I’m thinking of things like client contracts? what’s what’s the ideal term and structure for them?

Shaun Clark
Yeah, so I mean, I think that contracts can be important for sure. I mean, if you live in a world where you can pull off something like, you know, guaranteed annual contracts, or bi annual contracts with your customer, that would certainly help. But from a prospective buyers scenario, you have to imagine that most people are not looking to buy a job, they’re looking to buy a business. And the difference between the two is a business is the kind of thing that if you leave for two weeks, or a month or two years, you know, reasonably speaking, you you’ll still have a business left when you return, and you won’t have lost your biggest client. And then over time, that recurring revenue stream at least continues, but should should continue to grow. And so if you don’t have a recurring revenue stream that’s fairly consistent in its upward trajectory, and again, has very low churn dynamics. Ultimately, that’s, that’s, that’s what the business looks like anything outside of that, and you’re trying to sell a job to somebody, and they’re going to see it, they’re not going to want to, they’re not gonna want to pay a lot for that. Because most outside investors are looking for something that is an asset, you know, not not a consulting gig.

David Bain
Great point. Well, let’s segue to part two of our discussion. So it’s time for Shawn’s thoughts on the state of digital marketing today, starting off with SECRET SOFTWARE, Shawn share a lesser-known martech tool that’s bringing you a lot of value, the moments and why that tool is important for you.

Shaun Clark
high level, my tool is great. It’s bringing a tonne of value for me and les are doing? Well, I think it’s lesser known, I’m certainly less or no than many others. But I mean, I would say it’s the only platform that serves digital agencies only. It’s the only platform that allows digital agencies to white label software out to their customers, as well as replace everything that they’re already using out in the market, and are the only people that again, only sell the agencies, which I think makes us incredibly unique in the market. I think there’s very, there’s nobody out of our size and our scope that only sells agencies.

David Bain
And you knock took the bat and knocked it out of the ground. There we go. If I was, if I was to push you to select a piece of software that you didn’t own or operate yourself, what would you think you might choose? Oh, gosh,

Shaun Clark
well, let me see Oh, well, let me think of the mark tech space here. I think what there’s a guy on my team, he’s using a product called surfer SEO, which he really loves because it allows him in the in the team two are just now getting into blogging, and it allows them to score their their WordPress entries and to make sure that they’re very SEO friendly. So I think he would, he would love me to shout that one out. I think he really likes that tool a lot.

David Bain
Great. Okay, well, thanks for that time. So let’s move on from something he currently used is something that you’re going to use. So that is

Bot
NEXT ON THE LIST. So

David Bain
what’s one marketing activity or tool that you haven’t tried yet? But you want to test soon?

Shaun Clark
Yeah, sure. I would say that we haven’t done a tremendous amount of ads to date. And so I think as we move forward, we’re going to be testing a lot more, it’s kind of boring, but a lot more Google AdWords on our side. And, you know, again, we’ll feed all those leads into our own product, and work them through our own lead nurturing, but ultimately, that I think is the big thing we’re going to test out is can we can we reach the marketing community through a more traditional advertising medium, and find good ROI success there? So that’s for us, that’s we haven’t we haven’t really run ads to date. So that’s kind of our next venture.

David Bain
So you’ve been fairly successful to date. So what has been your primary way to drive awareness? so far? word of mouth. Okay, word of mouth using using LinkedIn or traditional networking? Oh,

Shaun Clark
no, no. So we I mean, we have a, we have a 40% recurring affiliate commission programme that we run. And we, as we do it, we sort of think about it like this, you know, if you come in and use our products, we think we think our products amazing. And we think it’s a great replacement for pretty much any of the major marketing platforms out there. And if you agree with us, and you like it, and you have a couple of friends, you’ll you’ll, you’ll recommend that they come in and if you do, we’ll pay 40% recurring commission every month for the life of of that of their usage. And so it’s all been through incentivize word of mouth.

David Bain
So absolutely superb. Great to hear. Okay, well, let’s move on to the this or that route. So this is the quick response right into 10. quick questions, Just 2 rules here. Try not to think about the answer too much, and you see the word both on one occasion, so use it wisely. Are you ready to dry Tick Tock on Twitter, Facebook or LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube or podcast, YouTube, traffic or leads, leads, paid search or SEO, SEO, ads or influencers, influencers, Google ads or Facebook ads Facebook ads, email marketing, marketing, email marketing Bartek stack all in one platform all in one platform one to one or scale scale relatively easy. I think the only one that jumped out at me was actually YouTube or podcast you choose YouTube but obviously we’re talking about podcasting a bit as well. Are you actively focusing in on YouTube? Is that successful for you?

Shaun Clark
You know what it’s it’s just funny because we didn’t we didn’t really think about focusing in on anything we’re I’m I’m a software engineer by trade, so I’m not a marketer at all. And so we just funny because we just started putting all of our videos up on YouTube, because people would ask, oh, you know, you have a video about this or video about that. And, you know, we look back now and, you know, I think it’s, you know, it’s not huge, it’s 1000 subscribers, but we’ll take it and we get a lot of, we get a lot of really good guests on there. We start we started interviewing people and things. And so it’s just amazing to me how impactful YouTube has become, without really honestly knowing it or thinking about it or trying it, it just sort of popped out.

David Bain
Okay, okay. And 8000 is a decent number, certainly. And it’s a great place to really get traction from. Have you tried uploading uploading your videos elsewhere? Facebook or LinkedIn? Did you

Shaun Clark
do it now everywhere? I think I think we even have a podcast I think we take to have these cool things called spotlight sessions, where we interview some of the brightest minds in marketing. And we literally put it out now we put it everywhere. Right? I think that’s the role. You just put it on YouTube, you put it on, you put it out on, you know, as a podcast, you put it out on Twitter. So I think we put it out everywhere these days.

David Bain
Yeah, I mean, I’ve been experimenting with with doing a lot of different ways at the moment. I’m live streaming on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn. Primarily because it’s it’s also a lot of efforts just to publish it as a podcast and on YouTube. And then what you have to do is create snippets to publish on LinkedIn and elsewhere. And the only way that you’re going to be able to publish lengthy videos on somewhere like Twitter or LinkedIn is by live streaming insert, instead of actually breaking up and spending time doing that. That’s a good, that’s a good trick. pass that on to my content team. Yeah, it’s good. It’s good. Um, but then you can also, when you’re live streaming, make sure that you refer to any resources or people that are mentioned as part of the live stream as well. So it gives them the heads up, then they’re going check it out as well, and hopefully gets a few more. Yeah, that’s cool, isn’t it? Yeah, that’s a great idea. That makes total sense. We’re returning the interviewer Ryan. So before you start asking me any questions on that, I’m gonna move on to the

Bot
$10,000 question.

David Bain
If I were to give me $10,000 you had to spend over the next few days in a single thing to grow your business? What would you spend it on? And how would you measure success?

Shaun Clark
Probably Facebook ads and I would measure it and how many new free trial signups we got. Okay,

David Bain
so Facebook ads, I’ve been experimenting with that a bit as well. And obviously, people tend to engage with content just very briefly on Facebook. So I’ve found that it tends to be best if you do videos and and do maybe general content to begin with, and then retarget ads to people who have watched your content to drive them back to your website to do use a two step approach to use a summer approach to that or, or the other way targeting,

Shaun Clark
I think it’s been super important. So yeah, I think the idea is to Yeah, you know, to kind of get some interest get them to click cookie them, and then yeah, just retarget the heck out of them. Because ultimately, you know, it is about trying to break bring them back several times. And you know, and for us, you know, we also have a have a crowd that tends to operate and exist on Facebook quite a bit. And so we’re because we have that sort of digital first native customer. That tends to be their their main spot. So yeah, it’s a good place to reach them,

David Bain
Chris. Okay. Well, MAGICAL MARKETER finish off, let’s shift the focus to someone else who deserves it. So who’s an up-and coming marketer that you’d like to give a shout out to? What can we learn from them and where can we find them?

Shaun Clark
Oh, my goodness. Yes. So there is a gentleman by the name of costume Ozlem, he is a Google AdWords expert. And he he is actually he reached out to me randomly one day, I’ve never I never met the guy, and he’s like, Hey, I just want to show you something super cool on AdWords. And he showed me how. And I don’t even know how this works, actually how to target people who are logging into other software products that we compete with. And you can actually run Google Ads at those people. And it just blew me away. And he does, you know, many more things and as an incredible marketer that way, but I just was I, I’ve been in the world of AdWords for 15 years, and I’ve never seen anything quite so cool. So I was, I was very impressed. Yeah, I’d

David Bain
be keen to find out how that worked. And I’m just thinking,

Shaun Clark
wouldn’t it? Wouldn’t anybody? Yeah, exactly. You should, you should have him on your show. He’s, he’s a, he’s a really good marketer. It’s, I always love this stuff. Because again, I’m a software engineer, I don’t know, really anything about marketing, but I, but I always love to watch other people work and, and learn something new. So it’s really cool to meet people like that.

David Bain
But I love the section is a great way to get introduced to other great marketers to to be on the show, potentially, as well. But it’s a great way to refer to people as well, because obviously, the I mentioned, as part of the live stream, I mentioned, resources that have been mentioned during the show. And that includes SECRET SOFTWARE and the MAGICAL MARKETER. And they’re great resources to mention to bring additional eyeballs. So hairy hand surfer SEO, cast Muslim, any other resource that’s been mentioned, if you’re watching this show, because of that, thank you for for watching on. So there we go. This was Episode 261, of Digital Marketing Radio, where Sean Clark from high level shared some great tips about owning and operating an efficient agency, including offer software don’t just focus on your services to begin with. Perhaps you may have a product or a service, but you don’t necessarily have to offer that publicly. But you should be defining how costly your service takes to operate, and making sure that everything you do is efficient and makes you profits. And also people don’t want to buy a job. If you’re structuring your agency to sell it, make sure you’re actually offering people the opportunity to buy a business instead of a job. Your SECRET SOFTWARE was of course, high level and you also give surfer SEO I mentioned as well. And you’re focusing more in on ads as your NEXT ON THE LIST. And you finished up by saying that your MAGICAL MARKETER was castle Maslin, a Google Ads expert. So I will have a good look into that and ensure that everything that you mentioned is in the show notes at Digital Marketing radio.com. Shawn, what is the best social platform for someone to follow you and to say Hi,

Shaun Clark
definitely Facebook, you know, just reach out, reach out to us there or reach out to me over Facebook Messenger or what have you. It’d be always always

David Bain
superb. Okay, well also make sure that I include that in the show notes at Digital Marketing radio.com. I’ve been your host David Bain. You can also find me producing podcasts and YouTube shows for B2B brands over at Casting cred.com until we meet again, stay hungry, stay foolish and stay subscribed. Aloha

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